I mean I don’t know what else to say. Pretty sure they’re are enough Alliance people who realize “hey this is probably our best shot at stopping her from burning anymore cities down” to make a event out of it.
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Just comes down to personal taste. If someone wanted to do that event, there’d be a good turnout. As long as everything is opt in, I wouldn’t think there’s a problem.
I’m sure there are, but I’m not sure what that has to do with anything. Again, as far as I’m concerned, cross-faction social gatherings such as balls, galas, and open markets stretch my credulity and I’m compelled to ignore them for the sake of my own immersion. Alliance soldiers meeting with Horde rebels does make more sense, but still feels awkward enough that I’d likely do the same.
Ehh. I think Saurfang didn’t want to do it initially. He denounced her as soon as it happened but stuck by to ensure that his people got out - despite him hating Sylvanas he still highly respects people other than her. He even stayed behind not to necessarily betray her but die honourably.
Weekly reminder that conquering a people, destroying their spirit, and murdering them if their former allies try to liberate them is still A Pretty Evil Things To Do All Things Considered.
Which I’m sure is all we’re going to say about that.
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I agree with this, but I’d also say it’s fine to have perspectives IC that condemn them.
Hell, one of my favourite things to do in RP is to find a perspective that makes sense in lore, but isn’t entirely sensible, and just develop irrational opinions off of it.
As an example, Sarestha, until quite recently, was so resentful of the Alliance’s abandonment of the Forsaken that she sees the humans of Stormwind as traitors to humanity - the Forsaken of Lordaeron are all that truly remains of the human Kingdoms.
Now OOCly I know that’s ridiculous. If anyone’s actively and vocally abandoned their humanity, it’s the Forsaken. But Sarestha’s developed an irrational opinion based on one-sided evidence. That can be fun.
What boggles my mind is how everyone is so quick to take it to OOC. Maybe I’m just good at detaching, but I can RP everything from a super happy and friendly Pandaren to a fanatical Sylvanas follower and not have it alter who I am OOCly one bit. But sometimes people are quick to jump to “x type of character denotes that their player is a crazy white nationalist.”, and I’ve never quite understood that.
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Nah, he was pretty cool with going to war and holding Teldrassil hostage so that the Alliance would splinter, thus making it easier to sack Stormwind. It wasn’t until Sylvanas burned a bunch of people alive that he realized that, hey, maybe war isn’t all that great. He even muses in A Good War that he has no one but himself to blame.
This is when it gets upsetting and harmful in my opinion. I think some people are more influenced by their feelings towards factions than they realize, and it leads to some pretty unfair treatment of other role players OOC. If we just remembered that we’re all here to have fun and role play, and there’s no winner or loser, things would be more chill.
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Or al the jingoistic Humans who refuse to acknowledge war crimes committed by the Alliance.
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We’re a hair’s breadth from accusing the players of Horde-aligned characters of being cool with RL genocide, and that’s messed up.
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It so totally is. Even the people who are proud of and happy with the good elements of the Horde often get torn down because of the bad things. Which makes sense on one level, but on another it’s rather discouraging. It’s like there’s a culture where we can’t point out the good elements of the Horde without facing ridicule, and you can’t point out the bad elements of the Alliance without doing the same. Granted, the Horde has a lot more bad than the Alliance. But that’s not my point. We’re trying to establish a false binary between good and evil when it IS more nuanced than that. Even if the scales are obviously tilted.
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It doesn’t seem all that silly to let people like and enjoy things in the game, without attributing that to their values in real life. Especially with the assumption of them being… yknow, sociopathic and evil. That’s when it gets really severe and bleeds into everything. Trying to control peoples’ characters, or write people off as evil. Some things America has done, I consider wholly evil, and condemn unquestionably.
I’m not physically attacking government employees or exiling myself. I don’t see why we’re holding fictional characters to greater moral standards than we do ourselves.
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Oh boy, here we go
For the record, “you should really examine the horrific things you defend in hypothetical scenarios in an age where actual real-life human beings are often reduced to detached hypotheticals” is more of an American thing than specifically a Horde player thing.
This is true - I am a proud warrior of Jarl Ulfric, after all - but I also think it would be foolish of us to say it’s impossible that the way we portray a character can say stuff about our OOC morals, even if it’s not the case most of the time.
Someone touched on this above, but when you’re playing Johnny, Templar of Justice, the Lawful Good Paladin, and you go around calling people slurs and threatening to execute them over minor crimes, I think it’s fair to say that that sort of reflects on the player’s ideas of what “good” and “just” mean.
Maybe I wouldn’t feel this way if it hadn’t literally happened to me, though. The leader of a guild I was in several years ago was a self-described super great Vindicator and champion of all that was Light and Good, whose opinions about justice and lawbreakers and, uh, the autonomy of women’s bodies wasn’t exactly progressive.
For a long time I thought he was trying to have this interplay of “Light Is Not Good,” but it turned out he was just a fascist, actually. Maybe that’s colored my perspective somewhat.
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I don’t think anyone said this. All I said was that it shouldn’t be assumed, and the person railroaded and reviled for it. When we don’t actually know anything about them.
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Truly, only nerds could twist “this narrative is unnecessarily gross and going to some very dark places, so for my own comfort and immersion I choose not to engage with certain types of characters or events, and will outline why in this thread specifically asking me to outline why” into you decrying anyone who has ever played a fictional faction in a vibeo gaeme as an IRL fascist who is totally cool with murder.
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I don’t think anyone is saying that either. I think some people are concerned for the type of hostility this rhetoric can create. Which is a valid concern, I think. Pretty evidently.
Wait, I’m lost. I don’t see anyone accusing anyone else OOCly of any sort of views. Why did it get brought up?
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Someone brought up that it’s often a problem, and then others responded by saying it’s a valid point, that character beliefs can correlate with real ones.
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I’m not sure if the conversation is even still on this, but literally all of my Horde characters who can are supporters of Baine and will jump ship at the first opportunity.
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