A sprawling forest of a Redesign

Now that beta is over and TWW is launched I’d like to take a moment to talk about some high and low points for druid as a whole (class and specs) as well as ways I’d personally like to see it reworked. I’ve additionally tried to incorporate some of what I’ve read on here since a little before the Hero Talents were revealed. What I’m suggesting here would be a fairly major overhaul of the class and would alter the way we play some of our Hero Talents, but I think now is probably the best time to mention this. Before I begin in full I’d like it noted that I mainly play Resto/Guardian and have been playing the game since the latter parts of Cata(mostly casually but recently (S1 of DF) I began perusing the higher end content in the form of high keys and Heroic/Mythic Raiding). Several of the points made in here were made elsewhere and I agree with them. I can’t and don’t take full credit. That being said, I obviously don’t speak for all druids.

A quick TLDR:
-Druid has had some wins and some losses since DF and the new talent system
-FIX… PATHING… PLS!!!
-Remove Frenzied Regen from the GCD
-Replace Nature’s Vigil w/ Lunar Beam
-Move Double-Clawed Rake (that also effects Mangle), Twin Moons (that also effects Rejuv), Incarn/Convoke (but form based), MasterShapeshifter (redesigned), Grove Guardians/Force of Nature (Call to Nature), and Call of the Elder Druid (choice node w/ HotW) to the class tree
-Add Improved Sunfire to Sunfire
-Baseline Soothe and Ironfur
-Give Innervate to Balance specifically
-Alt: Put it w/ Keeper of the Grove
-Have Nourish consume (augment/enhance) Regrowth or Swiftmend and their Modifiers
-Give Guardian “Grove Protection”(PvP) in the spec tree
-Combine Beserk nodes into one node for bear and cat
-Keeper of the Grove’s Dream Surge might be better if designed around Soul of the Forest/Trees/Tranq-Wild Mushroom
-and be more Emerald Dream influenced
-Remove “Magic” restriction from Glistening Fur (Elune’s Chosen)
-Redesign “Inner Peace” to make a 5yd grove centered on you that helps you heal or gives mana back (think Mana Tide Totem but smaller radius and during Tranq).

High:
-There are some elements of the Druid fantasy that Blizzard has captured really really well or left as it’s historically been. For that I say, Thank you! I think every druid can think of several things that our class and spec do that really scratch the Druid itch.
-Our hero talents are largely well intended and on the mark for what could be. Their potential is right where it should be! I think all 4 really capture amazing fantasies surrounding Druid.
-There has been a few loud complaints among the druid community that were addressed (i.e. - the Bear mini-rework in DF , Skull-bash being easier to access)
-Fluid form is an Amazing(!) talent that really highlights was progressing as a druid would be like. I also think it really highlights Heart of the Wild (HotW) in a way that I think is truly wonderful.

Low:
-In the most recent rework of the tree many many many complaints among druids weren’t addressed (i.e. - Ironfur not being baseline).
-There are talents that are gated behind useless talents for half of our specs (i.e. - Lore of the Grove and Instincts of the claw).
-If that wasn’t bad enough, pathing (probably the biggest complaint among druids) for our class tree wasn’t fixed. It may have even worsened.

Before I get into how I suggest fixing it I’d like to take a moment to talk about what a Druid is w/in the lore.
-We are protectors of nature and help guide it’s cycle. Both the savage and the tame parts of it. From healing mends caused disaster to causing that very disaster in an effort to restore nature’s order we do it all. Our teachings and lessons are passed down from Cenarius, son of Malorne and Elune, into the tribes of those who became Tauren and through Malfurion.
-We revere Elune and call forth power from her. Be that hiding in the shadows of a new moon to strike our prey or calling down moons of our own. Elune is part of who we are and central to our being.
-Lastly, in guiding the cycle and protecting nature we commune with it and its forces. We rage like the bear, are lithe like the cat, are whimsicle like the Owlkin, and we restore like the forest. As with any weed we come back again and again given enough time. However, as druid we don’t just do these things but BECOME these things. We are friends with the bear and become the bear. We raise our hackles with the cats as cats! We dance in the moonlight w/ the Owlkin as Owlkin. We restore nature as nature itself (treant). We are Shapeshifters because guiding the cycle requires us to be able to help with all of the cycle.

In alignment w/ the above I recommend the following for the class tree:
-More and better pathing. There are literally class tree’s where every single node is connected to the ones around it or really close to it (i.e. - Rogue, DH, Shaman, Mage).
-In doing so reduce the number of DeadEnd nodes to an minimum. As mentioned in many other posts druid has more DeadEnd nodes (excluding the capstones) than every other class (combined I think).
-Chain utility off to the side of nodes that every spec uses like Thick Hide.
-Incorporate “Improved Sunfire” into Sunfire.
-Make soothe (we are druids) and Ironfur baseline (paladins don’t talent into Shield of the Righteous, Warriors don’t talent into shield block, etc)
-Give back moonkin form to all druids that they learn while leveling please!
-Replace “Instincts of the Claw” with “Double-Clawed Rake” (feral) and have the 2nd point be to allow Mangle to hit a second target as well.
-Oakskin is cool, but rather than the Survival Instincts buff make it read like, “Barkskin reduces damage by an additional 8/15%. When it begins in Bear Form, you gain Ironfur [and Frenzied Regeneration].” For 1 point you have 8% and just Ironfur. The 2nd point is 15% + both Ironfur and FR.
-Delete Nature’s Vigil and replace it w/ Lunar Beam. There is no druid around that wouldn’t want 15% free mastery, a little dmg, and some healing while inside the circle. For clarity the mastery buff would be regardless of if you are inside the circle or not.

-Replace “Lore of the Grove” with “Twin Moons” (Balance and Guardian) and like IotC let it apply to Rejuv or Regrowth for the 2nd point (would hit a 2nd target if able).
-Give Innervate to balance druids alone.
-Alt: Move it to replace the Keeper of the Grove talent “Expansiveness” but it instead increases Primary Resource generation for a longer time that it currently lasts.
-Move Incarn/Convoke and its amplification node into the class tree and rename it something like “Incarnation of Nature”. This version would be form based rather than spec based, so you have access to Incarn of Ursoc/Ashemane/ToL as a balance druid but obviously wouldn’t have the extra Berserk nodes to help out w/ bear/cat forms during Incarn. In this way during Incarn, when you shift into bear form you are the Incarnation of Ursoc, in cat form you are the Incarnation of Ashemane, in Moonkin form you are the Chosen of Elune, and in no form you are the Tree of Life regardless of your spec.
-The duration of Incarn of Ashemane/CoE would need to be increased to 30 seconds.
-Doing this would provide a little extra value to the off-spec nodes already present in tree and not make them as “dead”. Granted if you are doing dmg you don’t want to spend such a valuable window not doing dmg. So…
-Replace “Lycara’s Teachings” with “Lycara’s Twig” which reads “Shapeshifting increases the damage or healing of your next Shred, Mangle, Wrath, or Regrowth by 100%.” and make that node lead into Incarn.
-Delete Forestwalk.
-Move Master Shapeshifter out of Resto/pvp sections and rework it so that after you complete an objective in your current form you gain bonus primary resource (AP, Energy, Mana, Rage) generation in your next form. This would look something like using three 5-combo point spenders in cat form increases the primary resource generation of your next form for X seconds. Then you shift into Bear from and your rage gen is boosted. Then you spend 100 rage and swap to no-form to help out your group a little and your mana gen is boosted. Something to that effect.
-Could consider adding a restriction so that you can only gain boosted regen from each form once per minute.
-Remove Force of Nature and Grove Guardians from their spec trees. Make a new node in the class tree called, “Call to Nature” that summons treants based off of the shapeshift form you are currently in. The color can be based off the seasons to match the spec. It would read something like,
“Issue a call to the forces of nature summoning a treant based on your current shapeshift form.
No Form: [Insert Grove Guardian text here].
Moonkin: Summon a treant that will cast moonfire on your currently active target and any target currently in combat with you that isn’t already affected by moonfire.
Cat: Summon a treant that wraps its target and all nearby enemies within 5 yards in sharp thorns, slowing them and applying a bleed.
Bear: Summon the aggravated nature to aid you, taunting your currently active target before returning to you and engaging in fisticuffs. You generate 1 rage each time they take damage.”
-Add a talent that is called “Ancient’s Wisdom” and reads, “For 20 seconds, Druid spells and abilities you cast give you 2% stacking Haste for 8 seconds. Applying a stack doesn’t refresh the duration.”
-Add an amplification node called "Windsong’s Teachings"that reads, “Druid spells you cast during Ancient’s Wisdom also decreases the cooldown of your druid spells and abilities by 0.5 seconds and extend Ancient’s Wisdom by 0.2 seconds up to a maximum of 4 seconds. A druid ability can’t trigger this effect more than once per second.”
-Alt: Return Ravenous Frenzy from the Venthyr.
-Lastly, move “Call of the Elder Druid” from resto and put it on a choice node with HotW.

Bear:
-Remove Frenzied Regen from GCD.
-Combine berserk nodes into one node that would replace Incarn.
-Rework Guardian of Elune to be something more lunar based and split it from After the Wildfire.
-Replace Pulverize w/ a version of Grove Protection(pvp).
-Talent recommendations to fill gaps made in the spec tree::
-Den Mother (pvp)
-Bulwark of the Black Ox (remix)(Flavored for bear)
-Bloody Claws
-Challenging Shout
-A talent that lets Mangle double tap a target if no other enemies are nearby.

Balance:
-There are many folks far more knowledgeable than me on balance matters, but it would be interesting to me to see a bit more influence from Goldrinn and Malorne. Like maybe an interaction w/ Wild Mushroom that would introduce some more skill expression and bring back some of the nature elements that Balance used to have.
-For added flavor, maybe make it so that when a balance druid disorientates an enemy they burst into dance!
-Talent recommendations to fill gaps made in the spec tree:
-Star Burst (pvp)
-Scion of the Night Sky
-Lively Spirit
-Celestial Guardian (pvp)
-Adaptive Swarm

Feral:
-Replace Double-clawed Rake w/ Fresh Wound
-Combine Beserk nodes into one node in place of Incarn.
-A new node called “Pride’s Protection” that reads, “When you consume Predatory Swiftness, your Regrowth or Entangling Roots is also applied to up to 3 applicable targets within 5 yards of the effect.”
-Leader of the Pack could be moved up and implemented so that you get the movement buff once per minute (maybe also when shifting into cat form) and an amplification node for the 2nd half. Could also be limited to a certain number of people around you. I don’t really know how to implement this in a way that works for PvE but I believe!
-Talent recommendations to fill gaps made in the spec tree:
-King of the Jungle (pvp)
-Strength of the Wild (pvp)
-Wicked Claws (pvp)

Resto:
-Remove Photosynthesis from the flourish node and put it back by itself.
-Return Essence of G’hanir as a choice node w/ Flourish so that the choice is between a more mana intensive, burstier option and a longer lasting option that’s less mana intensive.
-Put Dream of Cenarius as an offshoot like Lunar Inspiration in the feral tree.
-Redesign Inner Peace because right now I dont think it’s competitive enough and PvP has their own version that’s better.
-Idea: “Tranquil Grove” - creates a small grove (5yd) around you during tranq that increases the effectiveness of your mastery for those w/in by X%
-Alt: Redesign it so that it increases primary resource gen for those w/ by X%. (This would help replace Innervate if you didn’t want to play Master Shapeshifter)
-For flavor can we get a glyph to turn you into a treant during Tranq please?
-Personally, I’d like to see Power of the Archdruid be increased to have a 100% to proc for consistency’s sake but the original was like 25%.
-Alt. - make it guaranteed but every other or every 3rd cast so that it lines up w/ Reforestation.
-Drop Ironbark’s CD or increase it’s effectiveness please!! It’s the worst tank external by a decent margin or requires 3 full points for less dmg reduction than most personals and extra healing over time. Cool, but still the worst tank external.
-Have Nourish replace and consume Regrowth or Swiftmend and all it’s modifiers in addition to Nourish’s effect.
-Could some effects be added to Tranquility please. (i.e. - Mylune’s Call toy being on the ground during the effect or it spawning flowers under people it effects like the G’hanir staff from legion does to you if you stand still for long enough)
-Talent recommendations to fill gaps made in the spec tree:
-Ancient’s Bulwork
-Early Spring (PvP)
-Tranquil Mind.

Hero Talents:

Keeper of the Grove - With Treants out of Balance and Resto’s spec trees I recommend the following:
-Change Dream Surge to be able to gain a charge (or multiple) off of consuming Soul of the Forest.
-With you being able to get 2 charges or opt into just the 1 of swiftmend I could see this being a bit difficult to balance but it wouldn’t require people to play Tree’s while still opting into KotG
-Changing around the choice nodes to be either Treant or Tranq/Wild Mushroom focused.
-Trying to play into Tranq to stay on theme for KotG or letting you get treants to keep w/ original design.
-i.e. A node that enfuses Tranq w/ the Dream and make it give allies healed “Infloresence” (Nymue)
-Changing the remainder of the nodes to not focus on any of the above but rather utilizing the “Power of the Dream” part of the description to throw in some Emerald Dream based visuals and effects.
-i.e. maybe Efflo spawns a “Surging Growth” or 3 inside its effect (Nymue) that hurts enemies standing in them. And the Balance variant would be that they get a Verdant Rain (Nymue) added to Starfire or Starfall. (Nymue).
-Or letting me activate Nourish/Swiftmend (Balance = Starsurge) again after it goes on cd to make a “Barrier Blossom” (Nyume) on the target.
-Changing the capstone to gain the 5% buff by Consuming Soul of the Forest, Call of Nature (including ToL trees), or casting Tranquility/Wild Mushroom for 15 seconds. Stacking up to 5 times. Gaining a stack doesn’t refresh the duration.

Elune’s Chosen:
-The only real edit I’d make to this based on the above would be to remove the “magic” restriction from Glistening Fur.

Druid of the Claw:
-I love this tree. Like the above the only edit I might make would be to replace something w/ giving the main spec the berserk of the offspec during Incarnation of Nature. Might be the capstone.
-I didn’t make a Misc section so… Please, bring back the Old Incarn armor. Make a model for the forms. At least update the base racial forms that really need it and give it to that appearance.

Wildstalker:
-Like the above, I largely love the tree, but would change out the defensive choice node. Idk how, but it doesn’t seem good to me.
-Maybe also include a node that increases the effectiveness of your heals when no other healing is being done to them.
-Given the “Stalker” part of Wildstalker there is only 1 node that has anything to do w/ prowl and this seems like a bit of a miss. Maybe let you cast prowl in no-form and it does cool things to your next heal?
-Buff more moves than Rake, Shred, and Swipe in prowl?
-I think it would be neat to have a whole section of the tree be devoted to prowl. Like maybe: “Preparing for Rain”: it would work like Living Seed or Cenarion Ward so that the next time they take dmg the HoTs you cast in prowl would start rolling.
-Maybe also have Wildstalker prowl visually spawn tall grass around you as you move around to hide you. It wouldn’t do anything. It would just be cool.

Admittedly, I took from the PvP talent more than I’d like, but some of them are really really cool!!! I don’t know what I’d replace them with but hopefully the PvP community can help me out. Could another glyph be added please to make ToL an Ancient? One final thing I’d like to add is to please let us restore the world! Let us bolster the ranks of the Thornspeakers! Ragnaros has been gone from Hyjal for a long time. The Vale of Eternal Blossoms has been Sha corrupted for too long. Ashenvale needs restored. Nordrassil for all it’s time and the moonwell’s water below is smaller than Bel’ameth, it seems. Just like in the Pandaren intro quest or on the Molten Front, druids actively healed the creature/land and restored the forest there, even if only partially. It would be a really cool event we could do as a community and even partner w/ shamans and other classes to help!! Lastly, please fix animations not working when coming out of any shapeshift form. Thanks for reading this far! Elune’adore
-Azvard

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I would change the word “abilities” to talents (I think that is what you meant) but I agree.

To further expand, I do like the talent trees and like the idea how if you spend points in one section, you get later points that enhance on that.

To give an example of how some talents are at odds with that philosophy

  • Feral Swiftness is behind Rake. A movement speed increase is going to be useful for every spec, but for some reason it is after Rake. Balance, Resto (if you are not catweaving) and Guardian are not going to be using Rake, so it is pretty much a wasted point.
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I just want an update Tree of Life/Incarnation form for Restoration. Like an Ancient of War/Ancient of Lore model. No reason it can’t get customization. There are multiple versions and types of them in the game already.

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Love the ideas, particularly love

As Resto, this, this alone is truly what I miss. MOONKIN FORM needs to comeback!.

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YESSS!! A glyph for that would be dope! An Ancient of Lore / War/ Wind look would be really cool!

Wouldn’t it? I do think it should be more than a glyph. Zero reason honestly there can’t be full customization like moonkin. Or at bare minimum, a selection of choices like the other shifts get.

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Moonkin form was awful, especially as Feral/Guardian. I prefer the bonuses rolled into baseline caster, especially as Resto so I don’t have to fluid form or waste globals. More of a tax than grabbing Rake for Move Speed, but to each their own.

Like, a permanent Tree of Life form? Tbh, that would be sick.

It would make it hard to tell when you actually pop ToL though…lol.

I think she means being able to customize ToL in the barber shop like all of our other forms. The customization options being normal ToL and the various different types of Ancients to start. This way when you pop ToL you would be an Ancient of Lore, War, or Wind.

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That would be cool too but just mean barber shop customizations for the ToL cooldown form/Incarnation. There are a handful of models in the game already to pull from for customization: Ancient of War, Ancient of Lore, Ancient of Arcane, Ivus the Forest Lord, Old Ironbark, etc. That isn’t even to talk about a lot of the updated models used in the latest expansions like the Ancient with a bird beak and different back pieces/shapes.

Honestly Blizzard is just lazy :frowning:

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Oh I see!

I think that would be swell. I would love to have a winter version of ToL, kind of like the ancient mount, that changes its look depending on the season.

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100% down for Barber Shop ToL and Treant Form customization!!!

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You sure we’re not still in a live beta?
Are you really sure?

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hahha, stay out of my journal bud, that’s my line!

Enjoy the live beta!