While i get your concern, from my perspective it’s really not. 1) If you only have 1 or 2 leaves i don’t think anyone is going to hold it against you. 2) I played all thru Legion and till now in BFA and i’ve only ever left ONE key, where the 3 Ragnaros players i joined (won’t make that mistake again) were toxic and abusive.
3) If a leader is so moronic as to not invite me because of that ONE leave in nearly 2 years and hundreds of pugs, then i’d rather not be in his group anyways.
That’s why i suggested making it work like a vote to kick but instead it’s a vote disband. ANYONE who leaves, “including the key owner/leader,” gets it counted against them unless the group chooses to disband.
I don’t want people to like me, just to respect others’ time as well as theirs. If they leave my run vowing to never play with me again then so be it. And yes, I and the 3 others in the group do win by being able to finishing the run and improving our keys next week.
I see. Well, I’ll take that for sure. That being said I’d argue for statute of limitations, maybe the counter resets every season so that way people that were toxic and leavers before have the chance to start over and try to be a better player in the future.
An informal system when listing groups to signal intent. For Completion, For push, For IO. That would at least obligate someone to stay if they join a group marked for completion.
Second, add an abandon run vote and track anyone that leaves if there wasn’t an abandon vote. Let Raider IO have access to that data. That way you can judge their experience and temperament to stick a tough one out.
Nothing wrong with leaving early or only playing for IO score as long as the key owner is aware and ok with it.
While I agree there are some people who are unreasonable when they leave (IE leave after the first wipe while the key is going good), if the key is a complete disaster, I wouldn’t want me, or anyone really, to stay if we’re reaching a ridiculous amount of wipes or over on the timer by a ridiculous amount.
This is the truth. Increasingly we are getting back to a system where control of access to content has been put in the hands of players. This is what devs want, but they have been either unwilling or incapable of creating a system that consistently works well for the majority of players.
Perhaps they imagined it would be “supporting” guilds to try to force players who want to do mythic+ into the right cliques in the right guilds.
OP, holding control over access to your content creates responsibility. People don’t leave groups “mindlessly” as you like to imagine. They are there to complete the dungeon, and when it is clear to them they won’t, then they leave, regardless of how many hours you want them to stay to complete it, or whether they’ve decided from your behavior or the behavior of the other players in your dungeon that completing it will be time from their life they can never get back.
The responsibility of putting together a successful group is yours, OP. You failed. This is a leadership failure. Others should not be punished for your failure. You should consider yourself lucky that the punishment for your own failure is so mild.
What you want to do is, whisper the person that leaves and say this to him/her: “Thanks for coming”. They will be so overcome with guilt from leaving that it will cripple their ability to play.
Thats why my idea caps at key timer +5 minutes. OR until a vote to disband is completed with 3/5 votes. In case your group isn’t CAPABLE of continuing.
They have changed it. MOST of the game is automatically assembled or personally undertaken. It’s only when a player’s reach exceeds their grasp that problems ensue.
“The joneses are running M+, I must run M+. Hey you, let’s run M+!”
Normal and heroic exist for this player. The joneses are a team, have a schedule, and like each other. M+ is for them. Normal and heroic are for individuals.
Sincerely, a satisfied WoW customer that realizes he’s not the joneses, who has run every instance in the game.
The community can deal by avoiding pugs (its not supposed to be pug content, remember?) and learning to toughen up when it goes bad. If one is having tons of people leave their keys each week then there is something that person needs to address.
Again, the problem is not that people can freely leave a group if they wish, the real problem is that one person leaving the group causes regression by depleting the key to a lower level, that’s the what needs solving.
Again, forcing someone to stay when he doesn’t want to is not going to bring anything productive to the group, best case scenario he afk’s and wait for the time so he can leave, worst case he actively sabotages the group.
So the solution is to simply make lower keys (below 10) to not regress if you choose to run out and start over, either with the same group or a new one.
As for higher keys, I don’t think any change is needed, we do those because we enjoy the challenge (or for score). I’ve had people leave my +13 or +14 keys but I mean not a big deal we just run out and start over one level lower.
Plus 1 to you for this bit. Once the keys start getting higher there’s no excuse for not having a dedicated team if you’re pushing. Pugging them is asking for trouble because keys at a certain point are expected to be failed more frequently.
Yep, even with my group (no pugs), when it’s clear we are not making the timer we stop and discuss if we want to finish the key or not, usually if we are close to the end we will finish it but otherwise we either start over or go run a different dungeon. (for high keys ofc)
No, it doesn’t need solving, because it’s already solvable and the solution is available to everyone. Don’t. Pug.
So now you want an LFR version of m+? And by LFR I mean it requires different rules to help ensure success, no slur on LFR itself intended. No thanks. Blizzard intended for this content to require a regular team of players, not random pugs. If you want to pug it, fine, do so at your own risk and accept the consequences of your choice.
Well I mean I’m not running keys below 10, so it makes no difference to me… I’m proposing this change because it will promote player participation at lower keys, which I believe are meant for players to learn the dungeons and work their way up.
Personally I enjoy M+ on its current state a lot, I think it’s tons of fun… But I’m not blind and I know it’s though to get started and work your way up, making pushing your own key less punishing (by not depleting if the group fails on lower keys) would promote more inclusion, more “taking a chance on that non-meta class”, and ultimately more participation which ensures the future of M+ (which I enjoy so much).
This is also how pretty much any game works you know??, you fail a level, you try again the same level, you don’t regress to the previous one. Imagine if every time we wiped on a Raid boss we needed to clear the previous boss again before trying again, that would be dumb wouldn’t it?
Edit:
Now that I think about it more, the change I would make is that keys below 10 are locked to one dungeon but don’t deplete if you choose to start over.
And for keys over 10, they deplete like they currently do on failure, but every key works for two dungeons (for example one key could be a +13 Underrot / Motherlode or any other combination) … If we can’t re-roll keys, at least having more options to choose from would be nice.