A Realistic Look at PvP

With so many posts about people crying or being dismissive of concerns, I decided to detail the reality of pvp in a more constructive way.

I) The amount of wpvp happening right now is going to decline. Like any new content release you will have the majority of the player base showing up and then population density starts to decline until the next content release. So while on many servers population density can be an issue, it’s a temporary one.

II) faction imbalance. This one is odd to me because it should be the people in the majority faction that should have the most complaints. There’s significantly more pros than cons to being vastly outnumbered in a pvp setting (and serious pvpers will try and join servers where they are outnumbered). If you make a premade group, regardless of size, you can steamroll almost anyone in wpvp as long as you stay as mobile as possible. You will also have constant action and a much easier time ranking up.

When you are in the majority, there’s not enough enemies to go around, so you can literally spend an hour fighting over a couple 10 honor tags. It’s not fun, it makes ranking much harder, and you’re largely doing nothing.

WoW will never have faction balance though, simply because they use a two faction system. One will always become larger than the other. This is why pvp based mmorpgs use 3 factions, because no matter who the strongest faction is, the other 2 will just group up and murder you.

There is legitimate concerns about PvE, but as most content is instanced it’s not hard to group up before an instance, and even cooperate with other guilds/groups, to steamroll any resistance. That being said, if PvE is your main focus I recommend transfering to a PvE server. PvP servers are dedicated to world pvp, that’s the entire point of the server. Whether you like it or not is largely irrelevant.

This is actually why I wanted the honor system to be released in P1 (you could have phase gated the gear). Many people said it would make leveling too difficult, but that should have been the point. It would also let people understand what a PvP server actually is before they invested all their time and effort into a character to only find they hate wpvp.

III) That brings me to my last point, PvP servers. As I stated before their sole purpose is to enable the type of wpvp content you’ve seen so far. The draw for most who enjoy this type of content is the fact it’s not fair, it’s a war zone. You will never have all your cooldowns, you will never have fair match ups, you will get stomped, you will get camped, and you will find ways to survive and do the same to others.

In a bg or arena setting, the skill cap only allows you to ever simply beat the enemy team. In wpvp, you can have a 5 man wipe a 40 man raid. I don’t know if you’ve ever won a 1:8 fight, but it’s a blast, literally.

People will get super creative, they will use every potion and engineering item in the game, they will abuse game mechanics like boat respawns, anything and absolute everything to give them a leg up against often overwhelming odds… and win.

As time passes, different zones will start to have different rules. If you want to do 5-10 mans, plaguelands, if you want 40 mans, TM/BRM, if you want 1-2 mans, shimmering flats or other “unpopular” zones. There will be different type of wpvp content for whatever you feel like playing, and people who want that specific type of content will go to those specific zones. I play a on a full server, and even we don’t have constant zergs everywhere. They happen, but the vast majority of pvp is 5-10 mans.

At the end of the day you should do the type of content you want, but understand that just because you don’t like something, doesn’t mean it’s a problem that needs to be fixed. PvP servers are solely for wpvp, if you don’t like wpvp, or if wpvp isn’t what you thought it was, nothing is stopping you from transferring or rerolling on a pve server.

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:shocked: This one gets it!

Edit:

This part should be “transferring/rerolling” because the options for transferring do not include moving to a normal realm from a PvP realm

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How have they not made that an option yet?

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Well said. Never thought I’d say this on the forums, but I agree with every point you have made.

Absolutely. The hype right now is here because it’s new. People will soon become tiresome (although my wpvp experience has been amazing), and will eventually just wait for BGs.

I’ve won a 1:4 fight, and let me tell you it feels amazing. Using the terrain to hide, and los the rest of the team, popping expensive consumables, makes a world of difference.

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Yeah, fights in wpvp are far more dynamic. The problem is that most people simply see numbers, they don’t understand that most groups are insanely ineffective in pvp. They don’t target the right people, they don’t focus the same targets, they don’t use the right abilities. It’s a lot easier to fight a random group than people think. Most groups I clash with literally just give up if they have less people, even if it’s only like 2 more, they just stand there or try to run away, they don’t actually try to put up a fight or do damage when they would normally have a really good chance.

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Blizzard has only made transfers a preset to and from.

No open transfers.

Why? Probably some longer term solution in the works. Such as combined realms.

Actually, Blizzard is stopping many people from transferring XD. The transfers are faction specific to the overloaded faction.

This means the faction on that server most likely to be experiencing this issue, cannot transfer.

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I understood that, I just assumed that PvE realms were among the realms listed for high pop servers to low pop servers as historically people tend to transfer off pvp servers.

Though most of the complaints i see are about being in the 10% side of a faction and not being able to transfer. Not the 90% or people wanting to go pvp to pve.

As Horde in Thalnos, it is ridiculously boring. It honestly feels like we outnumber Ally 10 to 1 in STV for example. I would easily transfer to a more balanced server if i could or even one where horde is outnumbered.

Actually, I would even faction transfer if I could in my own server. Dont know why faction change from the most numerous faction to the other one isnt possible. Probably to much work for Blizz to implement and they are not willing to do it

Probably because the players getting farmed/camped for HKs will stop playing or go to another server.

I’m sure that brings quiet comfort to the players getting farmed/camped for HKs.

On significantly imbalanced PvP realms, it’s more a farm zone than a war zone.

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Which is odd because those people are the ones that should be getting off the PvP realms.

I think it will also decline severely when people figure out rankings don’t exist and the PvP gear isn’t in the game yet.

They should figure that out tomorrow morning.

You have to have put yourself in a very bad situation to get camped/farmed, like going out into the world solo with no supplies. There’s a number of ways to run away, especially if you’re in a group.

One popular one is to rezz at once and sapper charge together. Another is to respawn and immediately invis pot. There’s ways around almost anything, you just have to go out prepared.

There’s not many “significantly” imbalanced pvp realms, and if they are, it’s more a detriment to the farmers than the people being farmed.

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I really don’t care about world PvP. I mean, I play a warrior and mages mathematically broken versus me. I’ll wait until BGs when I can run with a proper team.

Please link your source for faction balance.

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You are right. The numbers will likely decline, but it will be due to the ganking and toxicity surrounding it and people quitting the game because they can’t level anymore without being harassed. That’s why I rolled a RP server. I knew that PvP servers would be toxic and borderline unplayable once Phase 2 hit. I learned that lesson in retail my first time around.

Most people sign up for PvP servers with the idea that PvP is gonna be a fun community involved thing, but in reality it’s nothing more than the WoW version of spawn camping from CoD. There is no “honor” involved in the process. There is no organization. It’s just abunch of people making their days better by making other people’s days worse.

And whats gonna end up happening is these roving bands of trolls and jerks are going to camp and kill their way to an empty server. Because with almost every server having some level of imbalance one did has a distinct advantage which makes the game less fun for the other side. And that side will start bleedimg players and then it becomes a snowball effect. More people will leave because their guildmates left or their friends left. And then you are left with a server where one side has no community to speak of and the other side has nothing to do. And then all those people with nothing to do will be the ones whining and begging for realm transfers.

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just because you took your ball and went home doesn’t mean everyone else will

this is how it was in vanilla same thing just a bigger faction imbalance today.

Well there’s no truly accurate source for realm statistics, but if we go off the old post from wowhead, though that’s probably wildly inaccurate now.

Either way that wouldn’t address any of your other points.

That will be some people for sure, but definitely not the vast majority. Population decline is an incredibly well known phenomenon at this point. People log on for new stuff and then switch to other new stuff.

No one who pvps in any game ever had that assumption. PvPers at large lean pretty toxic

I honestly think you’re part of the camp that was woefully ignorant of what type of server you joined. Which i’m sorry you found yourself in that situation, but there are plenty of healthy servers. Mine is almost even faction wise, but i’d prefer to be on a 10% horde server.

Everyone? No.

Enough people to matter? Yes.

You are forgetting that a significant portion of the players playing Classic came over after playing retail and never experienced vanilla WoW. Retail PvP looks nothing like Classic PvP. The chances of someone walking into Classic PvP expecting one thing and then getting another is extremely high as result. Because I guarantee you that a significant number of players who signed up for PvP servers do not know how Classic PvP works vs Retail and just how toxic it is by comparison. And yeah that’s their fault for not knowing what to expect, but it being their fault is not gonna magically make them stay and put up with it for your entertainment. They will likely re-roll to another realm or quit Classic entirely. Either way you get the same end result. A cascading loss of players for one side and a stagnant boring experience on the other.

You people supporting the current form of PvP are acting as if there is gonna be zero consequences for constantly ganking and trolling the opposing side in leveling areas or flight paths. You seriously think you will be able to do that forever without people getting pissed and moving on to another game or server? Thats just not realistic.

So yeah not everyone will leave, but enough will to where it makes the experience bad for both sides in the end. Especially when every single time someone brings up the subject of PvP being terrible you get people telling them to leave the server or quit the game. You can only do that so long until everyone takes the advice and then you have nobody to PvP with.

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