You need to scroll up then. Numerous people asking for Flayed and DCs to do AoE damage, hell that one guy went through an entire thing saying how every ability had to do within 10% of each other in AoE. Call it what you will, but that’s just asking for homogenization of the abilities to be the same.
We agree, many others in this thread do not.
You are grossly misrepresenting what I said and attacking a strawman.
I said they should do within 10% damage of each other. I agree with Kaedys that they should use different mechanics to achieve that throughput.
Nevermind that for a stationary single target, Flayed Shot and Death Chakrams still lose right now.
You seem to have some misguidance of what peoples grievances actually are or what they are asking for.
Right now DC has no niche, utilization, its effectively another AMOC with out any way to trigger another reset like AMOC has, and eith mediocre damage, flayed shot has its own issues with things such as proc rate.
People are asking for the abilities to be comparable, the fact that the vast majority of hunters are all night fae should be a red flag and tell you something is wrong with the functionality of the other abilities.
If I want to pvp I’d use resonating arrow
If I want to be an effective raider I’d use wild spirits and not be a crutch to a guild or group I’d raid with.
And when DC, as people say looks like an aoe ability, smells like an aoe ability but reeks of ST with zero scaling in AOE scenarios? Thats not really enjoyable when people can take the optimal choice and have fun with it because they’re performing compared to taking a covenant they like but are being sub optimal.
You literally posted your dream scenario where all of the abilities do between 450 - 500 DPS in AOE, and between 100 - 150 DPS on ST.
Which is why I said we can’t have a conversation on this topic because I fundamentally disagree with your argument.
I am reading the same thread you are, they are looking at the AOE damage Wild Spirits is doing and saying DC and FS needs to do comparable. I am saying that it’s oaky if they are different, just that they need to be buffed…but not make them AoE abilities.
Kyrian and Venthyr Priest Abilities are the perfect example here, one is all AoE, one is all ST (with a little bonus effect added on top), but both have uses. You don’t “fix” Death Chakrams by making compete with Wild Spirits in the same niche, you improve what it does now. Practically all the suggestions in this thread are about turning it into an AoE ability.
And I didn’t say “Flayed Shot needs to hit 5 targets simultaneously for 90 DPS each” or anything along those lines.
My dream scenario was using Multi-Shot/Carve to spread the Flayed Shot DoT around to additional enemies, giving additional proc chances, and the ability to funnel all those extra Kill Shots into a single target. That makes Flayed Shot much stronger in AoE, but keeps the reactive proc gameplay intact, and making it much more focused on priority burst rather than generic AoE or a big AoE damage amp.
Death Chakrams already is an AoE ability, just one with no scaling for additional targets. It literally hits up to 7 targets within X radius of whoever you cast it on. If it just scaled up the damage every time it hits a new target that solves the tuning issue completely without changing a thing about how it functions mechanically.
The 15% damage increase for every time it hits isnt enough? Im kinda confused on what you mean?
It’s 15% every bounce, even if it bounces to the same target.
There is no scaling for additional targets.
Basically, it deals the same total damage if it hits 1 target as if it hits 7, because it gets that 15% per hit regardless. Adreaver is suggesting an additional multiplier that is applied the first time it hits each unique target. That would let it deal more total damage against multiple targets, because it would get multiple of those multipliers.
I’m not convinced, though. To make a difference, the increase would have to be pretty high, and that would mean the last hit in a pack of 7+ was hitting like a freight train.
Personally, I’d be fine with a nerfed version of the Anima power for it, where each target struct explodes a couple seconds later for an AoE around them.
Yea but it they changed it to where it increased for each unique target, wouldnt that kinda nerf it on single target?
Exactly, which would suck. If’s funny, Mindgames (Priest Venthyr Racial that is tops for DPS) is single target and does 300%AP and adds a nice little bonus that it stops your opponent from damaging people. Death Chakrams does ~330% AP on a singe target and returns focus and “it’s crap and needs to be an AoE”.
In a PvP environment as MM you can fire it off after a Aimed Shot and then pair it with Crows to do about 20K damage, especially if you then follow that with Rapid Fire. Was a Survival you can group it with Crows + Regular Chakrams + Death Chakrams + WFB in a Coordinated Assault and basically destroy anyone who can’t Iceblock or Bubble. There are plenty of uses for it, although it can definitely use a small buff.
People seem to only see abilities in the context of dungeons it seems.
That would also work well and be easier to tune, and would get quadratic scaling, similar to Volatile Bomb for SV after you’ve dotted up a big pack with Serpent Sting.
I would actually enjoy something like this, its really fun to play with when one gets it, but yet the ability standalone just is so bland, empty, devoid of everything and falls short of so much potential upside.
This. And yea. Maybe a small buff, but more damage? More focus? Gotta be careful to not make it broken.
you suggest there are plenty of uses for it but in what environment.
what serious pvper is taking chakrams over resonating arrow that can be utilized better with the toolkit
what mythic plus player will ever take chakram over wild spirits or to a lesser extent resonating
open world content? maybe sure but none of the higher end players focus on that.
there isnt an applicable scenario where chakrams is practical.
PvPers
PvPers who know that the team they are facing will not always stand still, or for this who also like Fleshcraft.
None, but that’s fine. Notice how I’m not saying it needs to be BiS in all content? Maybe you should start thinking that way.
Open world you take what is fun, so why not?
I gave you two. There are plenty of people who PvP like it, especially on the Survival side which is really only popular in PvP and expect it to get more popular with the MM nerfs. SV Hunter also have lots of ways to get people out from behind Pillars so they don’t need to blow a DPS CD to do it.
But I’ve never once said it shouldn’t be buffed, I just said it shouldn’t be turned into a Green version of Wild Spirits.
The issue is that since Dual Talent Specialization was introduced way back in 3.1, there has been NOTHING stopping you from swapping from a ST loadout to an AoE loadout on a whim. This didn’t change with Legion artifacts, but if your AoE spec and ST spec were different, you had to grind two artifacts, and you had to grind two legendaries as well. This didn’t change with Azerite, but you had to maintain two gear sets or one set with good traits for both contexts and be willing to pay the reforge fees. This doesn’t change with SL legendaries, you just need to run enough Torghast to craft multiple leggos.
The only thing against that system right now is Covenant lock in.
If they want to go for a more RPG-focused “meaningful choices” game, where respeccing talents or changing to a new spec is expensive and/or cumbersome, I’m fine with that, but they need to make that paradigm shift across the board. Not the one area of the game that has both player power and permanent aesthetic choices attached to it, while ignoring that those choices are utterly meaningless beyond the context of the combat you are currently in everywhere else.
A little more damage, maybe escalating the focus recovery or something would be nice too. Making it work with SV Hunter Mastery is needed too.
Seems like youre saying that if it isnt the top 2 covenant abilities in the game, it shouldnt be picked. Not everyone plays to min/max. Sure… a “serious” pvp’er is most likely gonna pick the “best” ability. Your statement makes it appear as if someone does do a mythic, Chakram will do 0 damage aoe or single target.
Practical. As long as the ability does something, itll always be practical. Optimal is something different.
This is a completely different issue. I hate that Player Power is associated with Covenants, I screamed about it on Beta since June, but it’s the system we have some I’m willing to try it. And for it to “work”, each ability needs to be different and useful in some way and I don’t think turning DCs into a green Wild Spirits is a way to do that.