Agreed, blizz went to hard on the nerf hammer when they toned this talent down from beta. The best bet is to hope we get tuning changes after the first raid drops.
This. Basically, NF will no longer gradually push out Kyrian in MM AoE with Mastery scaling; youâll get both choices for the whole foreseeable futures.
Sadly, we still get only those two choices though.
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Which is a shame really, an ability that could very easily thrive in AoE scenarios, mythic plus what ever is ironically one of the worst compared to wild spirits and resonating arrow and has no feasible solution in sight at the moment and is stuck waiting for a balance patch to maybe fix it.
I mean, the fixes are easy enough (see above for sufficient, mathed-out community spitballs, each in a matter of minutes).
It just takes not the devs being dead set on two covenant skills being purely single-target and thereby worthless.
Mentioned in the other thread, but itâs a nerf if youâre using Niya, as she gives 400 Mastery via a Soulbind trait whenever you use Wild Spirits.
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I think if Death Chakrams damage was increased, gave less focus per hit, then gave a focus generation buff for 10 seconds it might work out.
As for Flayed Shot it needs some AoE potential. The Kill Shot procs cleaving is an idea I saw in another thread that could work.
Actually, as posters in another thread pointed out, this is unquestionably a nerf to Wild Spirits in basically every case atm, and the reason is Grove Invigoration. We get 1% damage per 25 mastery rating (8:11.2 off 35 rating), so thatâs a minimum of 16% additional damage bonus. Itâs unclear if the âdouble dipâ was additive or multiplicative (ie. if you have 25% mastery, whether it was 1.5 or 1.25*1.25), but in either case, this is almost certainly a net nerf to everyone.
Edit: Damnit, Adreaver ninjaâd me while I was on a call >.<
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Am I missing something or shouldnât Grove Invigoration only be giving 200 mastery?
I think with flayed shot maybe blizz put themselves into a bind. Do they want flayed shot to be single target only (so no attached cleave) so we have to buff the proc rate to make flayed shot worth it single target or do they not want you to feel bad/feel to far behind if you pick a different covenant and the fight is single target (so maybe we hold off on buffing flayed shot) ?
https://www.wowhead.com/news=319716/covenant-choice-popularity-for-shadowlands-dps-tank-and-healers-using-wowranks-i just to reference the numbers something in the realm of like 86,000 or so based off of what wowhead pulled are all night fae that are beast mastery, and another 55,000 marksman hunter are also night fae
Why is this? It could be for many things whether they like the covenant, the benefits etc. But most high end raiders regardless of spec for this class will choose the most optimal path and that has been night fae.
Which begs the question why are other covenants lacking to the point where there is such a sheer discrepancy of people all in one covenant.
Chakram tuning is one issue as being discussed through out the thread.
Yeah I get the reasons why Flayed Shot is lackluster but there really shouldnât be a reason that both the actual damage of Flayed Shot AND the proc rate are so low.
The tooltip on WoWhead is for DKs, who have a shorter cooldown on Deathâs Due than we have on Wild Spirits. Grove Invigoration stacks are dependent on Covenant ability cooldown.
The shortest CD (and lowest Grove Invigoration stacks) is Monkâs Faeline Stomp, the longest is a bunch of 2 min CDs including Wild Spirits, and there are a few in between.
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Got it, that makes sense
As Hunters we already do pretty well in AoE, Iâm not sure weâd need yet another ability for it.
We already have the Kyrian and Nightfae Ability that are great for AoE, if Necro worked better for Cleave and Venthyr for Single Target, I think that is a much better mix than just have everyone be good at AoE.
Iâm not sure why people want Necrolord and/or Venthyr to just be a different skinned Wild Spirits.
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Because they want to remain near-equally effective in M+ and other AoE-heavy content while choosing the Covenant they like best aesthetically and thematically?
If there were some way to choose between different abilities, maybe some sort of talents you can choose over and above what your character has baseline, that would be a good way to solve this problem. I wonder what such a system might look like.
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Because a player shouldnât feel like their covenant choice is an illusion, feeling like they need to take one specific covenant or feel like dead weight to their raid team pvp group, what ever,and the 4 abilities should all perform within close reason of another for what ever activity it is theyâre doing whether it be necrolord perhaps shining a bit more for M+, and Night Fae for raiding/venthyr and kyrian for pvp. As an example
The gaps between the covenants as they are shouldnât be this large but they shouldnât be gutting wild spirits to make up for the lack of power from the already lacking abilities in flayed shot and chakram either that would get no where
This just in, thereâs more to the game than M+. With Raiding + PvP starting today, there people will see that ST or cleave has value in Raiding and PvP.
The fact that many PvPers are using Necrolord along with Kyrian shows that Death Chakrams has value. The fact that nobody is using Flayed Shot shows that itâs the one that needs a big fix.
This is an entirely different issue. Every class has this issue, if we want to talk Pull the Ripcord or removing all player power from Covenants, that ship has already sailed so itâs too late.
As of now, EVERY SPEC has a BiS Covenant for the content they want to do, changing Death Chakrams to be more AOE focused just takes away all itâs uniqueness. What about the people who actually like the idea of a ST focused ability, I guess their opinions donât matter because Night Fae does better on trash packs in Mythic Zeros?
And there are AoE centric raid encounters as well, not to mention some people donât like raiding.
The point stands. If I want to be an emo edgelord Van Helsing cosplayer (I donât, Venthyr are way to edgy for me), I donât want to be less effective in any type of content because of a completely cosmetic/thematic choice.
Flayed Shot should be the best ST Covenant Ability, the fact that it isnât means it isnât tuned correctly. The ability might be boring, but so are most Covenent abilities to be honest.
Being Venthyr should make you the best at one form of content, the fact that it doesnât make you the best in all content is the entire point behind the Covenant Design. As much as I donât like attaching player power to the Covenants, that is where we are, so making everything AoE is a really bad âfixâ for the issue you feel exists.
Honestly, your responses reads like âThis is the content that I like to do, so therefore every ability should work best with my playstyleâŚand if anyone else plays any other content, thatâs not my problemâ. Thatâs now how class design works.
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