A list of why Storm, Earth, and Fire is an absolute mess

15 days later I thought it would be a good idea to show just how much of a problem this spell has been, how little effort seems to be put towards it even though you’ve said you’re making every effort, considering a lot of these have been around for months and others since the alpha opened ~6 months ago before this acknowledgement (technically some of these have been a problem since day 1 of legion).

Which is why I’m slightly disappointed that this is looking like 2016’s promise all over again.

Spells/abilities/buffs in relation to Storm, Earth, and Fire typically falls in one of three categories. Either they do 55% less damage because of oversights, they are DPS neutral (which is a problem for something that’s supposed to be your DPS cooldown that provides a damage increase), or it works fine.

When reading these lists keep in mind… this is supposed to be our DPS cooldown.

Problems on Live/Pre-Patch:
The bad:

  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones no longer cast Tiger Palm, meaning you lose 55% damage on it [and causes a more important problem] - still a general problem:
    Fixed: Build 39401 : Important to note that this was very likely a fix to something else, that just negatively impacted SEF and got fixed along with it.
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones break their own Mastery and Hit Combo on an individual basis instead of just being reliant on you benefiting from either. This being more of a problem because a typical fix to Storm, Earth, and Fire is to just have them not copy an ability, a fix which just causes you to lose a huge chunk of damage for no good reason. This is also a problem shared by the Venthyr summons as well, but that’s not important for pre-patch.
  • Spells that they do not cast that are used to weave include: Tiger Palm, Expel Harm (Expel harm is another important one considering it’s a builder), Flying Serpent Kick, [Bonedust Brew, Faeline Stomp| new to Build 39401], and Chi Burst. It’s a good thing they don’t cast Chi Burst because of the pulling potential it has but… it shouldn’t come at the loss of (at a minimum) 16%+ damage on 2/3rds of your output because of them breaking mastery (base 10% mastery + 6% HC), loss increasing as your mastery increases. They should benefit from mastery if you benefit from mastery.
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones still miss casts of abilities depending on any number of things (travel time, GCD, being on strike [a joke okay], etc…) , resulting in anything they missed to result in a 55% damage loss of that cast.
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones don’t min/max the amount of targets they can hit with directional abilities, you can try to mitigate this by fixating them on specific targets, however you could still run into problems where spells like FoF would’ve done more damage hitting ‘X’ number of targets at 100% effectiveness, than hitting ‘X - Y (Y being targets hit by you and not the clones)’ number of targets at 45% effectiveness. This is almost entirely a problem with Fists of Fury because it is a frontal cleave, whereas everything else is an AoE with no directional requirements.
  • One example of the above being the tentacles on the last Nzoth fight, they tend to sometimes only hit 1 tentacle each while you’re capable of hitting all 3. If FoF does 1000 (+500 to each secondary target, in this case 2) damage, then you would be capable of doing 2000 damage in total. During Storm, Earth, and Fire you yourself are now doing 900 (450 main + 225 to 2 targets) damage, and your clones are doing 450 damage to each of their targets for a total of 1800 damage instead of the 2000 you would’ve been capable of if you just never used your DPS cooldown. Resulting in a 10% damage loss to that Fists of Fury cast.

The Neutral:

  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not increase the damage of spells that Serenity increases (thus are things a DPS cooldown should increase) including but not limited to: Eye of the Tiger and Chi Burst (typically done by just increasing the damage of your own cast by 35% to make up for that difference). Although because of conduits now any flat fix no longer works as the value in the ability raises.
  • Instead of fixing the ability to have a singular ability do upwards of 300% increased damage by exploiting the way Storm, Earth, and Fire handles the debuff (yes exploiting/creative use of game mechanics aside), you’ve just made managing the ability significantly more annoying now that we can no longer /cancelaura it which has had legitimate use for overcoming problems with the clones.

In cases where using the clones when they aren’t hitting as many targets as they could be (and you could be hitting more at full damage) can result in you doing less damage than had you just not used them. This is mostly a problem regarding directional cleave abilities like Fists of Fury.
One fix could be to have the clones AoE their version of Fists of Fury instead. Though not a perfect solution either, and causes it’s own unique problems and issues (like breaking close CC).

The clone’s tracking mastery of their own accord is a problem, and one that devalues Mastery while they’re active and also causes problems with Hit Combo. Being one of the bigger problems with it going into pre-patch (and further worsened by the fact they don’t cast our builder) should definitely be addressed before the pre-patch drops.

Problems for Expansion release:
The Bad:

  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not seem to benefit from the 50% critical strike increase given by the Keefer’s Skyreach monk legendary.
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not benefit from the damage increase from the Echos of Eonar generic legendary while you have the buff.
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not benefit from the Vitality Sacrifice legendary.
  • Coordinated Assault (SEF conduit) increases the damage Storm, Earth, and Fire is supposed to do to fixated targets, which is fine. The big problem being that another typical bandaid fix is to just tack on a hidden multiplier to your damage to make up for the fact the clones aren’t contributing. See Galeburst, Azerite Traits, and the new Empowered Tiger Lightning (well it doesn’t exist for ETL for whatever reason even though it’s a near identical replacement). The problem being that the multiplier is supposed to make up for the damage Storm, Earth, and Fire does and is seemingly flat, but with the conduit their damage contribution will be higher and variable/volatile and not flat, thus that bandaid solution is yet another problem.
  • Coordinated Assault also doesn’t seem to increase the player’s damage at all, which is weird since the conduit includes ‘Storm’ in it, and not just Earth, and Fire. This may be intended but it amplifies problems with the fact the clones do not contribute to or benefit from certain things. It also means you don’t get the full value that the conduit says you get, as only 2/3rds of your base damage is being buffed by the conduit instead.
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not contribute damage into Empowered Tiger Lightning, and the hidden modifier tacked onto the previous version doesn’t exist anymore, causing you to do less damage when used together. Plus even if that modifier were to be re-added it was added under the assumption that the cooldown was a 35% damage increase, which depending on conduit choices is no longer the case.
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not benefit from the 10% damage increase from the Wild Hunt Tactics soulbind trait. As of Nov. 13th this appears to be fixed
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not benefit from the 10% damage increase from Plaguey’s Preemptive Strike soulbind trait. As of Nov. 13th this appears to be fixed
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not benefit from the damage increase on their procs of bonedust (32% base -> 76.8% max) from the Bone Marrow Hops potency conduit.
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not benefit from the 4% damage increase from the Dauntless Duelist soulbind trait. As of Nov. 13th this appears to be fixed
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not benefit from the armor penetration from Potent Acid Glands (anima power).
  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not seem to benefit from the Calculated Strikes conduit, not only that but it seems to do weird things with your own damage (actually causes you to lose damage for some reason at lower stack counts) when compared with and without the conduit.
    Edit: This appears to be because SCK with the conduit ceases to benefit from mastery (for whatever reason) and no longer scales with off-hand weapon dps from what we could tell… all in all just a weird thing. Clones still don’t care though :wink:
  • Probably missing another 50 things but you know… it’s just SEF things (how is this spell still in the game this way).

The Neutral:

  • Storm, Earth, and Fire clones do not increase the damage of spells that Serenity increases (thus are things a DPS cooldown should increase) part two: Nightfae faeline stomp and Venthyr fallen order monks.

The reason it’s a problem that they don’t benefit from buffs like these is because you’re going from buffing 100% of your damage by 10%, to only buffing 45% of your output by 10%. Devaluing the buff during your DPS cooldown as instead of being a 10% damage increase, the buffs are effectively a lower increase. In the case of 10%, instead of doing 1485 (based on a hit of 1000 base, +35% from Storm, Earth, and Fire, +10% from another buff) damage you’re doing 1395 up from the base of 1350 (with no bonus) Which means a 10% increase during Storm, Earth, and Fire when they don’t benefit is closer to that of a 3.3% increase instead of 10%.

TL:DR being damage buffs that don’t apply to the clones benefit you at 1/3rd the original value, so a 10% buff is a 3.3% buff, a 20% buff is a 6.6% buff, etc.

I tried to include as much as I’m aware of, I’m almost certainly missing a few things here and there but overall I tried to make this a comprehensive list.

Amended List(s)

Finders keepers

Lists this large happen all the time, and get larger as patches come out (yes I fully expect 9.1onward to expand the list as has been the case before), so excuse me for not believing you when you claim to be ’making every effort to improve the reliability of this ability’.

Especially considering Storm, Earth, and Fire still causes problems with corruption and essences on live to this date up until they cease to function (specific cases and not a problem as a whole). Edit: Well it would appear now that corruption is no more that I should point out how Storm, Earth, and Fire had an issue with corruption all the way until corruption died… yup, from the start to the end without ever being fixed.

Unless some miraculous miracle happens in regards to the spell, you would be better off scrapping it and starting from ground zero again. Patience and faith have been stretched thin since it became a problem in 7.0, and has been a continued problem since. The spell needs serious groundwork laid if it has any hope of working properly without causing problems every single patch.

All of this aside, I don’t hate the ability. I want to like it, but it’s ever increasingly more difficult to like it when problems with it exist, don’t get fixed (or if it does get fixed come back the next patch with a new mask) having the cycle just repeat itself all over again. On paper the cooldown sounds amazing, in practice it’s a disaster.

Do you know how disheartening it is to know that this was done in 7.1.5:

Storm, Earth, and Fire no longer reduces the damage/healing of spells and abilities that the clones do not mirror (such as trinket procs).

But ends up being a repeated problem all the time, either directly or indirectly. The cycle never ends…

I also fully think that if this were a problem a more popular spec had to deal with it would’ve been placed as a top priority, yet some of these problems have been around in one form or another for 4 years now. Which makes it even harder to trust you when you claim you’re going to fix it. Because you tend to just fix it now, then ignore it for another year while a lot of what got fixed comes back in another form in a new patch.

Why can’t we just have a more permanent solution instead of the countless bandaid fixes that feel like trying to rebuild a house on a foundation that has never existed in the first place. Only to have the house fall again to be rebuilt again, and again… and again.

This is also just for Storm, Earth, and Fire, the spec has bugs in general but I thought getting this out there as it’s a more high-profile problem.

God forbid we talk about the inconsistencies with the Windwalking aura, or more baseline bugs that don’t include Storm, Earth, and Fire. This spec never left alpha.

I’m not trying to be harsh, but honestly what else do you expect at this point when this has been happening for 2 expansions, and now going on a 3rd. There is just no more good-faith that you’ll handle it, even if you claim to say you will.

As of Nov. 13th a few of the flat increases now work properly with SEF, but at the same time they now work properly with pets in general. So the pessimistic side says it was just collateral while fixing it for Hunters and DKs. But nonetheless still a very welcome thing to see, hope to see more things (especially the things unique to SEF) addressed before we release in 10 days and it not just be a bunch of happy accidents.

If you want more information regarding some of the more general bugs the class has as a whole look here:
Keep in mind any one particular list doesn’t necessarily include everything.

                               Multi-spec Bug List

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FsZ9I1SyJiBAw_iRnJNwr3Z_gUw5nWh4zZhXGZ-H50U

                                Mik's Bug List [WW]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-monk-class-changes/490702/985
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-monk-class-changes/490702/994
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-monk-class-changes/490702/1040
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-monk-class-changes/490702/1087
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-monk-class-changes/490702/1140

                                Magna's Bug List [MW]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-monk-class-changes/490702/993
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-monk-class-changes/490702/1039
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-monk-class-changes/490702/1086
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-monk-class-changes/490702/1139


Extra (Post from below for visibility)

Well now that it has been 29 days since their statement, practically a month at this point with no noteworthy changes to how much of a garbage fire it is it’s probably time to compile their previous statements about the very same ability.

To start off with we should look back at the first one… made 1,384 days ago. Yes, that long, and it was a problem before even that (as it’s just when they acknowledged it).

Was a problem 1,384 days ago | Originally posted January 7th, 2017.

Hey Windwalkers!

We previously responded to feedback about Serenity feeling mandatory due to bugs with Storm, Earth, and Fire, and we said that we were working on those bugs. Here’s an update on how we’re doing with that.

The following fixes for Storm, Earth, and Fire are coming in Patch 7.1.5:

Clones’ Fists of Fury now channels faster with Haste, plus an additional 25% faster, to further eliminate any chance of it being clipped due to tight timing.

Clones now travel much faster between targets.

Clones will no longer target Immune enemies, or crowd-controlled enemies, or enemies you aren’t in combat with.

Clones now choose a target within 15 yards of themselves (was 30 yards), to make them more responsive and give you tighter control of them. You may still manually re-target them, or summon them in a location closer to your intended target.

Clones will now only re-target when you use an ability that applies Mark of the Crane, and their current target already has Mark of the Crane.

If a clone is not in range of their target when an ability is used, they will leap to the target and then use the ability (instead of not using the ability).

Clones now inherit your stacks of Transfer the Power when they are summoned. They now generate and benefit from these stacks.

Clones now inherit your stacks of Hit Combo when they are summoned (and continue to generate and benefit from it).

They now have 100% of your health (was 50%), and they now inherit your Dodge chance.

Storm, Earth, and Fire no longer reduces the damage/healing of spells and abilities that the clones do not mirror (such as trinket procs).

We’re committed to making this a fun and functional ability. Please let us know if you find any further bugs with it.

Thank you very much!

If only Serenity wasn’t so bad maybe we could go back to the whole “Serenity feeling mandatory due to bugs with Storm, Earth, and Fire.”


Still a problem 616 days ago | Originally posted February 14th, 2019.

Hello! There are four things to report so far–

The Storm, Earth, and Fire + Mark of the Crane interactions should be fixed in 8.1.5
Pressure Point should work with Storm, Earth, and Fire in 8.1.5
Dance of Chi-Ji should work with Storm, Earth, and Fire in 8.1.5
We’re still investigating the Glory of the Dawn trait.

Thank you for the bug reports.

Still a problem 57 days ago | Originally posted August 26th, 2020.

We’ve been working hard to address the many bugs that have been submitted, with a focus on those bugs that are impacting testing, and we expect to have Monk testing in a much better place with next week’s build of the Shadowlands Beta (the first week of September).

While not necessarily focused towards Storm, Earth, and Fire… it is a horrendously buggy spell and the post claimed they were working hard to address the many bugs, so…


Still a problem 29 days ago | Originally posted September 23rd, 2020.

We’re also aware of many bugs related to Storm, Earth and Fire, particularly in relation to other spells. We’re making every effort to improve the reliability of this ability.

Are we looking to have another post to add to the list in 9.1.5, just like we did in 7.1.5… and 8.1.5… because we quite like the x.1.5 ‘Time to start caring about SEF’ patch.


At this point can we just have a more permanent solution to this problem than just trusting that you’ll do anything about it properly.

The ability needs a complete reworking under the hood to stop becoming a problem, it doesn’t need 1,384 days of blizzard branded scotch tape holding it together. Especially since some of your fixes just cause even more problems. Problems that are currently still plaguing the live servers, problems that’ll probably plague the servers 2 years from now.

You fix it one patch, then leave it to fall apart again the very next one and it’s just depressing.

Storm, Earth, and Fire no longer reduces the damage/healing of spells and abilities that the clones do not mirror (such as trinket procs).

The sad thing about it too, this part of the original statement made 1,384 days ago is still a repeated problem to this day. Not to mention other repeated problems with the ability.

Yet when bugs like WDP and ToD are around that are tremendous DPS buffs they’re fixed as soon as possible?

“We’re committed to making this a fun and functional ability. Please let us know if you find any further bugs with it.”
“We’re making every effort to improve the reliability of this ability.”

What part of those are we just not getting.


Statements are one thing, actually keeping your word is another.

In the past I would’ve settled for confirmation that you’re looking into it, how naive I was.

I don’t want to be that bad guy who just calls you out on the never ending BS, but there is just no sympathy left anymore and somebody has to do it. We want to believe you, but 1,384 days of frustration says otherwise… we just want it to finally end.

Please come up with a proper solution to this 4 year old problem.

Extra II

Well seeing that nothing is still changing in regards to the broken mess the spell is, let alone most of the other things… here I go!

[It gets a bit toxic later]

18 days before the expansion drops we’re still looking at every single game system coming up being bugged/broken for WW in some form or another. That includes covenants, conduits, soulbinds, legendaries, and even the meme tower torghast itself.

It’s so demoralizing.

Exactly what part of that is making every effort to improve the reliability of this ability in regards to Storm, Earth, and Fire. Yet when a bug is actually beneficial, like the Whirling Dragon Punch one… you actually put forth every effort to fix that within 24-48 hours. How is it you can fix those that quickly but god forbid things that hurt the spec stick around for years. It’s insulting.

Honestly every good bug that’s been fixed should probably be undone and used as a bargaining chip to actually get developers to fix the negative bugs in any significant capacity. Because if they can get around to fixing those in a timely manner, there is no reason they can’t fix the others. Yet…

SEF still has problems that have been carried over from Legion… 4 years ago. A conduit actually hurts the player (SCK one causes SCK to no longer benefit from two stats), a soulbind straight up bricks itself when a WW is around for anybody that picks it, to Anima Powers still unusable or still ‘NYI’, and not to mention how SEF literally doesn’t work with anything new in the expansion.

It’s painfully clear that you don’t have the time to address it anymore… or rather don’t want to bother addressing it regardless what you say for damage control purposes… so we’re about to just release with practically everything under the sun not working properly.

Sometimes you should just take the simplest solution. Delete it, start from scratch. Because it’s very clear you either don’t care enough to bother, or you physically can’t because it’s an unholy abomination of code that properly fixing anything would bring the servers offline for months… it just needs to stop.
Take it off life-support, stab it with a knife, shoot it in the head… It’s not worth the trouble.

How can we go the entirety of the Alpha… and Beta… and Pre-patch… and still not have it addressed even though you’ve made two blue posts talking about how committed you were to it. Exactly what part of that is commitment? Do tell me.

Because I remember launching into Legion with SEF a buggy mess… then launching into BFA a buggy mess… and guess what? Into Shadowlands a buggy mess. It’s so overly predictable that it’s sad.

The only thing we got? Two promises that they’ll make it better. One of which was just a rehashed version of what they said way back in Legion (funny how that works).

Real developers would be ashamed. I honestly feel like developers need to start dropping from the team for people who actually care and put effort into their game instead of doing the bare minimum they need for a paycheck. Because that’s what it feels like is going on. Nobody on that team actually cares or is passionate about what they do anymore. It might be overly cynical but I don’t care anymore.

Before I tried to tone it down… tried to be a little nicer, now I don’t care enough to try to be nice about it. We’re about to release with every single system in Shadowlands soiling itself because of a single ability. Plus the additional stuff unrelated to SEF.

It might be harsh or toxic, but it’s the truth… it’s also my unfiltered opinion about the state of development lack of development going on.

I don’t want to be that toxic individual. But honestly what do you expect at this point?

I’m getting sick and tired of all the empty promises, the lies, the deceit. Nobody who actually cared about their game/product could be described by every single one of those… monthly.

This started out about SEF, and while it’s still about it… it’s about so much more now. Between conduits, soulbinds, legendaries, and even other classes. It’s just a hilarious train-wreck and you should feel bad about that.

I’m not asking for buffs, or nerfs… just for developers to actually bother fixing the things they implement. But…

If nothing else, we deserve to cash out our 4 years of IOUs to be overly buffed to the point of being overpowered. Because you only seem to care when the numbers go up, not down, and it would be an interesting incentive to start getting things done.

It’s just depressing how much you lie to us and you should most certainly feel horrible about it. Just stop… just outright tell us you can’t be bothered so we can finally end this back and forth game.

Like I said in an earlier post…
Statements are one thing, actually keeping your word is another.

46 Likes

Good god I wish they’d just give up on these problem abilities

7 Likes

“Why the Monk class is a mess” is basically the second title of our feedback thread. So many problematic abilities and mechanics, on top of a ton of bugs. I honestly feel like blizzard looks at this class and they see the GIANT mess they made, and they just don’t want to even touch it. It’s like once a situation gets to a critical point you don’t even know where to start.

5 Likes

I wish they gave up on Covenant power, scrapped soulbinds and Covenant Class abilities and focused on Monks and other classes instead of Conduit energy and “You must be in the Shadowlands”

12 Likes

I always thought it was a stupid ability. Enough with the pets blizzard.

8 Likes

They’re only a problem because Blizzard is neglectful :wink:
I could see a world where Storm, Earth, and Fire worked with no headache. I just don’t expect that world at this point with the way they currently handle it.

It does sometimes feel that way. I was also on the fence about including bugs as a whole in the list, but that list keeps growing and some hilariously dumbfounded ones coming in as of late.

Like how an 8% dps increase conduit causes you to lose damage at low MotC stacks… because of course it does… that makes perfect sense :man_facepalming: (reason edited into the original post as far as we can tell why).

I may still include a more generalized list if I ever find the time to get one properly put together. In the meantime there are lots of them on the official monk thread.

I’m sure everybody would rather see them actually work on classes in general than the rent-a-power systems.

I take it you really don’t like fallen order and it’s 12 pets then :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes

SEF should become a brewmaster talent only… You know like it was in WC3 and then again in Heroes of the Storm. (Chen stormstout brewmaster in both games uses it as secondary life bar)

The talent should be a secondary life bar. Think Lay on hands.

WW monk should just get a real dps cool down. Blizzard could go all out and make us the next ssj4 goku level awesome with a glow effect and major damage boost. Or take the cheap way out and just have us take on the serenity look and seriously increase damage.

But keeping SEF as a ww dps cool down with its bugs, needs to end. Blizzard you have promised to fix it for 8 years… All you do is change the bugs. This is becoming an abusive relationship because I want to believe you but I am starting to see that I can’t.

6 Likes

That sounds nifty, albeit a bit OP so I very much doubt brewmaster would ever see it considering their relative strength as a tank because of stagger.

I think SEF could be fine as our DPS cooldown, but that would require Blizzard to care enough to make it not a problem. Whether that is redesigning it under the hood or just being on their A-game when it comes to actually fixing it.

To give you an idea of how much they don’t seem to care, SEF clones no longer cast Tiger Palm… an ability they’ve casted since the MoP version of the spell. All of the problems with that aside (among more problems), they broke that ages ago.

It was reported a bunch and now we’re looking to be going into pre-patch with our DPS cooldown somehow more broken than it was in 8.3. Which is also hilarious considering Ion tweeted about class abilities being the primary focus…

The more insulting thing about it is what they’ve told us: ‘We’re making every effort to improve the reliability of this ability.’

What effort have you made? The spell is a significant mess in 9.0’s pre-patch. Also while they have fixed a few things prior to pre-patch, a vast majority of the problems with it have been there since D1 of alpha and… are still there. It’s honestly a joke.

That rant aside, if they cared at all about this spec this wouldn’t happen all the time, because it happens all the time. If they cared enough to make sure it’s never a problem then it could be a cool thematic cooldown. But the impression being given is that they want us to watch the world burn.

That said they just don’t seem to care though, and saying you care is just lip-service if no real action is actually being taken.

I’m not trying to be harsh, but honestly what else do you expect at this point when this has been happening for 2 expansions, and now a 3rd. There is just no more good-faith that you’ll handle it, even if you claim to say you will.

4 Likes

Well now that it has been 29 days since their statement, practically a month at this point with no noteworthy changes to how much of a garbage fire it is it’s probably time to compile their previous statements about the very same ability.

To start off with we should look back at the first one… made 1,384 days ago. Yes, that long, and it was a problem before even that (as it’s just when they acknowledged it).

Was a problem 1,384 days ago | Originally posted January 7th, 2017.

Hey Windwalkers!

We previously responded to feedback about Serenity feeling mandatory due to bugs with Storm, Earth, and Fire, and we said that we were working on those bugs. Here’s an update on how we’re doing with that.

The following fixes for Storm, Earth, and Fire are coming in Patch 7.1.5:

Clones’ Fists of Fury now channels faster with Haste, plus an additional 25% faster, to further eliminate any chance of it being clipped due to tight timing.

Clones now travel much faster between targets.

Clones will no longer target Immune enemies, or crowd-controlled enemies, or enemies you aren’t in combat with.

Clones now choose a target within 15 yards of themselves (was 30 yards), to make them more responsive and give you tighter control of them. You may still manually re-target them, or summon them in a location closer to your intended target.

Clones will now only re-target when you use an ability that applies Mark of the Crane, and their current target already has Mark of the Crane.

If a clone is not in range of their target when an ability is used, they will leap to the target and then use the ability (instead of not using the ability).

Clones now inherit your stacks of Transfer the Power when they are summoned. They now generate and benefit from these stacks.

Clones now inherit your stacks of Hit Combo when they are summoned (and continue to generate and benefit from it).

They now have 100% of your health (was 50%), and they now inherit your Dodge chance.

Storm, Earth, and Fire no longer reduces the damage/healing of spells and abilities that the clones do not mirror (such as trinket procs).

We’re committed to making this a fun and functional ability. Please let us know if you find any further bugs with it.

Thank you very much!

If only Serenity wasn’t so bad maybe we could go back to the whole “Serenity feeling mandatory due to bugs with Storm, Earth, and Fire.”


Still a problem 616 days ago | Originally posted February 14th, 2019.

Hello! There are four things to report so far–

The Storm, Earth, and Fire + Mark of the Crane interactions should be fixed in 8.1.5
Pressure Point should work with Storm, Earth, and Fire in 8.1.5
Dance of Chi-Ji should work with Storm, Earth, and Fire in 8.1.5
We’re still investigating the Glory of the Dawn trait.

Thank you for the bug reports.

Still a problem 57 days ago | Originally posted August 26th, 2020.

We’ve been working hard to address the many bugs that have been submitted, with a focus on those bugs that are impacting testing, and we expect to have Monk testing in a much better place with next week’s build of the Shadowlands Beta (the first week of September).

While not necessarily focused towards Storm, Earth, and Fire… it is a horrendously buggy spell and the post claimed they were working hard to address the many bugs, so…


Still a problem 29 days ago | Originally posted September 23rd, 2020.

We’re also aware of many bugs related to Storm, Earth and Fire, particularly in relation to other spells. We’re making every effort to improve the reliability of this ability.

Are we looking to have another post to add to the list in 9.1.5, just like we did in 7.1.5… and 8.1.5… because we quite like the x.1.5 ‘Time to start caring about SEF’ patch.


At this point can we just have a more permanent solution to this problem than just trusting that you’ll do anything about it properly.

The ability needs a complete reworking under the hood to stop becoming a problem, it doesn’t need 1,384 days of blizzard branded scotch tape holding it together. Especially since some of your fixes just cause even more problems. Problems that are currently still plaguing the live servers, problems that’ll probably plague the servers 2 years from now.

You fix it one patch, then leave it to fall apart again the very next one and it’s just depressing.

Storm, Earth, and Fire no longer reduces the damage/healing of spells and abilities that the clones do not mirror (such as trinket procs).

The sad thing about it too, this part of the original statement made 1,384 days ago is still a repeated problem to this day. Not to mention other repeated problems with the ability.

Yet when bugs like WDP and ToD are around that are tremendous DPS buffs they’re fixed as soon as possible?

“We’re committed to making this a fun and functional ability. Please let us know if you find any further bugs with it.”
“We’re making every effort to improve the reliability of this ability.”

What part of those are we just not getting.


Statements are one thing, actually keeping your word is another.

In the past I would’ve settled for confirmation that you’re looking into it, how naive I was.

I don’t want to be that bad guy who just calls you out on the never ending BS, but there is just no sympathy left anymore and somebody has to do it. We want to believe you, but 1,384 days of frustration says otherwise… we just want it to finally end.

Please come up with a proper solution to this 4 year old problem.

11 Likes

Swap SEF with Serenity, make WDP baseline.

Folks that prefer SEF flavor, buggy or not, can choose to do so. Serenity becomes monk DPS cooldown, WDP was never something you could afford to abstain from anyways.

5 Likes

As simple a fix as that would be, it’s not like Serenity isn’t also without it’s own fair share of issues.

But I do agree with the direction that if somebody wants to deal with the bug riddled mess that SEF is, it should be something you opt into, not the default.

Maybe everytime its used a song by Earth Wind and fire is played

2 Likes

Well seeing that nothing is still changing in regards to the broken mess the spell is, let alone most of the other things… here I go!

[It gets a bit toxic later]

18 days before the expansion drops we’re still looking at every single game system coming up being bugged/broken for WW in some form or another. That includes covenants, conduits, soulbinds, legendaries, and even the meme tower torghast itself. Things like Faeline Stomp still breaking itself in such a hilarious way when you just… simply turn your character any sizable amount of degrees, the fact the spec has a duplicate spell in their spellbook with different cooldown lengths, to so many things.

You first promised to address SEF problems 1,399 days ago before rehashing that very same promise 44 days ago… and we’re still waiting for a lot of those problems to actually be properly fixed and not just covered up for 2 months.

It’s bug fixes… you know something that should be a typical thing to do. Not to mention if something ends up being as buggy as it has maybe the thought about re-evaluating how it works should’ve been considered… any time in the last 4 years.

Statements are one thing, actually keeping your word is another…
It’s so demoralizing.

Exactly what part of that is "making every effort to improve the reliability of this ability" in regards to Storm, Earth, and Fire. Yet when a bug is actually beneficial, like the Whirling Dragon Punch one… you actually put forth every effort to fix that within 24-48 hours. How is it you can fix those that quickly but god forbid things that hurt the spec stick around for years. It’s insulting.

Honestly every good bug that’s been fixed should probably be undone and used as a bargaining chip to actually get developers to fix the negative bugs in any significant capacity. Because if they can get around to fixing those in a timely manner, there is no reason they can’t fix the others. Yet…

SEF still has problems that have been carried over from Legion… 4 years ago. A conduit actually hurts the player (SCK one causes SCK to no longer benefit from two stats), a soulbind straight up bricks itself when a WW is around for anybody that picks it, to Anima Powers still bugged or still ‘NYI’, and not to mention how SEF literally doesn’t work with anything new in the expansion.

It’s painfully clear that you don’t have the time to address it anymore… or rather don’t want to bother addressing it regardless what you claim to say … so we’re about to just release with practically everything under the sun being a buggy, unrewarding mess.

When you actually try to do anything about it, you just play catch-up and slap on a bandaid to the problem instead of actually fixing the underlying problem. What does that mean? It means those problems come back up again the very next patch… and the next patch, and the next…

Stop with the damage control and the empty promises you have no intention of actually doing and just tell us you won’t fix it.

Sometimes you should just take the simplest solution. Delete it, start from scratch. Because it’s very clear you either don’t care enough to bother, or you physically can’t because it’s an unholy abomination of code that properly fixing anything would bring the servers offline for months… it just needs to stop.
Take it off life-support, stab it with a knife, shoot it in the head… It’s not worth the trouble.

Seriously…
Just swap Serenity and SEF so the default is a bug-free cooldown, and you have to opt-in to misery if you want. Because you can’t be trusted to do your job.

Or just change the default behavior to make it so it doesn’t hurt, but unintentionally buffs the player when you inevitably fail to program with SEF in mind (and fail you do spectacularly), and considering how quickly you bother to fix things that are DPS gains as opposed to losses would make this better for players in general.

How can we go the entirety of the Alpha… and Beta… and Pre-patch… and still not have it addressed even though you’ve made two blue posts talking about how committed you were to it. Exactly what part of that is commitment? Do tell me. How is it the spec has two versions of THE SAME SPELL that one overrides the other and potentially causes a problem with whether or not we have the correct cooldown (Fort Brew).

Because I remember launching into Legion with SEF a buggy mess… then launching into BFA a buggy mess… and guess what? Into Shadowlands a buggy mess. It’s so overly predictable that it’s sad.

The only thing we got? Two promises that they’ll make it better. One of which was just a rehashed version of what they said way back in Legion (funny how that works).

I’m not going to pretend to be a bit nice anymore.

Real developers would be ashamed. I honestly feel like developers need to start dropping for people who actually care and put effort into their game instead of seemingly doing the bare minimum amount of effort. Because that’s what it feels like is going on. It seems like nobody on that team actually cares or is passionate about what they do anymore. It might be overly cynical but sometimes the truth stings.

Your actions don’t match up with what you say, your actions show that you don’t care, your actions show that you’re disinterested in actually addressing issues.

Sure there may be a few passionate developers left, but as a collective the team doesn’t seem to care anymore.

Before I tried to tone it down… tried to be a little nicer, now I don’t care enough to try to be nice about it. We’re about to release with every single system in Shadowlands soiling itself in some way because of a single ability. Plus the additional stuff unrelated to SEF.

It might be harsh or toxic, but it’s the truth… it’s also my unfiltered opinion about the state of development lack of development going on.

I don’t want to be that mean horrible individual. But honestly what do you expect at this point? There is a limit to how much you can lie to us, and you’re hitting that limit.

I’m getting sick and tired of all the empty promises, the lies, the deceit. Nobody who actually cared about their game/product could be described by every single one of those… monthly.

This started out about SEF, and while it’s still about it… it’s about so much more now. Between conduits, soulbinds, legendaries, and even other classes. It’s just a hilarious train-wreck and you should feel bad about that.

I’m not asking for buffs, or nerfs… just for developers to actually bother fixing the things they implement. But…

If nothing else, we deserve to cash out our 4 years of Blizzard IOUs to be overly buffed to the point of being overpowered. Because you only seem to care when the numbers go up, not down, and it would be an interesting incentive to start getting things done.

It’s just depressing how much you lie to us and you should most certainly feel horrible about it. Just stop… just outright tell us you can’t be bothered so we can finally end this back and forth game.

Like I said earlier…
Statements are one thing, actually keeping your word is another… and you have yet to keep your word.

Even IF you somehow manage to fix it before launch, which I doubt…
But IF you do… the fact that we can go months upon months… upon months of the alpha/beta builds with nothing being done about it only for it to happen in the final weeks before launch is seriously disturbing and needs to be seriously looked at going forward.

You can no longer be trusted.

6 Likes

In the final days before the expansion drops I would like to just point out the noteworthy things they’ve addressed, and haven’t addressed regarding Storm, Earth, and Fire. Some of which are actually incredible, others… the opposite. But that said here I go…

FIXED

Wild Hunt Tactics
Preemptive Strike
Dauntless Duelist
Xuen's Treasure
They now correctly copy and cast Tiger Palm again.
Whirling Dragon Punch expiration bug.

Kind of…

Storm, Earth, and Fire breaking their own Hit Combo. 
But they still break their own mastery.

NOT FIXED

They still break their own mastery.
General AI related issues that cause you to miss out on damage.
Keefer's Skyreach
Echo of Eonar
Vitality Sacrifice

Calculated Strikes 
(causing SCK to no longer benefit from mastery or off-hand weapon damage)

Coordinated Assault only applies to two clones;
causing a loss of 1/3rd of the value of the conduit
and also causes the conduit to not increase your damage in certain cases
cases where the clone's damage is ignored by the game (Empowered Tiger Lightning)

While not a SEF issue, I’m also going to just put it here as it’s still a problem.

Windwalking movement speed aura prevents the application of 
Horn of the Wild Hunt.
The horn also prevents the application of the Windwalking aura.

Windwalking stacks with some movement speed effects
but then also doesn't stack with a LOT of movement speed effects.
These can include but are not limited to:
Stampeding Roar
Tiger's Lust
Chi Torpedo
Sprint
etc...