9/6 mythic loot thoughts

In Development Midnight: Curse of Ula'tek Public Test Realm
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Raid vs Mythic plus

This has been one of the big debates since mythic+ was released. People that only want to mythic+ don’t want to raid, people that only want to raid don’t want to do mythic+. Blizz has maintained the stance that it’s all PVE content and so therefore it remains linked. Considering the differences between the two blizzard has honestly done a pretty darn good job on class balance across these content types. Although I’d still argue that mythic+ should have separate class tuning than raid. At any rate mythic plus is the only end game content that is truly continuous in terms of progression. I don’t know how much of the population just does mythic+, and does it to the extent of getting 1% mount or .1% title and doesn’t prog raid. I’d imagine the number is small, but I myself am one of them.

When I heard the news of the 9/6 mythic from the last two bosses I didn’t love it. As someone who doesn’t prog raid I can live with the fact that there’s going to be one or two items from the last few bosses I won’t be able to get, but when it’s two full loot tables I wonder how hard it will be getting into high end myhtic+ groups being several item levels behind as opposed to missing one or two pieces. My initial thought was “why do raiders even need 9/6 loot from the last two bosses when they are just done with the season once they are dead therefore all this does is hurt the mythic+ players that don’t raid.” Now you can argue that chasing the gear is part of the fun of raid, or that people that do more forms of content should be rewarded, or that gear this past tier was too easy and completely devalued raid. Honestly all of those are valid points. And maybe there isn’t an elegant solution, but I have a couple of ideas.

  1. Make it so those items are 9/6 in raid only…kinda like how PVP gear scales in area. This way people that only care about raid still get to chase that ilvl for farm boss parses later on.
  2. There’s been a lot of discussion in the past on how hard/easy mythic+ vault gear is to get. We’ve ranged from very hard some seasons to extremely easy like this past season, but one thing has remained the same. There are no gear rewards for going beyond the vault +10 key level…..What if…once a certain breakpoint is reached in the season such as hall of fame being filled for raid. That completing a +20 key rewards 9/6 loot in the vault. This way top tier raiders don’t feel obligated to do +20s and earlier on in the season they have an advantage, but later in the season when mythic+ really matters anyway those that want to push keys don’t feel behind because they don’t raid and have something to chase as the season continues…
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If you’re capable of getting to the point where a few extra item levels are that big of a difference, you can also raid in a guild that will have these bosses on farm.

The game should not be tuned around people pugging high end keys.

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I am tired of seeing these damned threads popping up. So lets do this again for those wanting to whine, cry, and complain how they feel slighted at the 9/6 raid gear.

Sure, it has been a real big debate. That aside:

  1. I can agree that there needs to be a separate tuning modifier for M+, I do think that will allow them to balance specs for both forms of content more fairly.

  2. It is only continuous because it is designed that way. Blizzard could have easily created a content cap to M+, but chose not too. This adds nothing to your argument other than acknowledging that the system was set up that way.

  3. Yes the number is a small portion of the player base that strictly do M+. Just like there is a small portion of the player base that get CE content. So it would stand to reason that, the size of the player base that does both CE content and M+ (1% or .01%) is smaller than both communities you just listed.

And the reason is? Because there is going to be some small gap in an item level number? Have we not learned anything from the end of this season?

Like I am sorry for coming off condescending, rude, or just mean, but the fact that so many of the M+ community members are in here trying to cry foul over gear is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that those who will have this 9/6 gear, most likely is running in groups with others who have also secured the 9/6 gear. Item Level has never equaled class skill or mastery.

Does your class skill suddenly disappear because you are 3 item levels lower than a few people in keys?

Does your ability to Pug keys suddenly dissipate into a cloud of smoke?

The answer is no, you will still be able to compete in the end game content of M+. Item level is not the end all be all that some of y’all are trying to make it out to be.

Let’s also remember that those two loot tables you mentioned, are on a weekly lockout. Add on the RNG factor of those items needing to drop, still means that some players can go the whole season without getting said item, unless they use the X-core system. Also don’t forget to add on that if the item drops, that you are going to be competing with anywhere from 1-19 other people to get that said piece of loot.

Oh, and not to mention that M+ still holds BiS items for classes, and there is usually always one or two pieces per class.

Why? That is punishing Raiders for participating in a form of content they like. So absolutely not, there should be no reason to punish players that participate in both forms of PvE content.

Mythic Plus has been the premier way to gear your character since The War Within. You could literally trivialize Heroic Raid content by spamming +10s. Its why so many RWF and CE guilds use M+. Because it gets them the best gear possible while progging through Mythic Raid content.

The only reason why this season it was highlighted even further was due to the X-core system. When you completed a +10, you could spend 1 core and get a piece of Mythic loot. The only way for a Raider to get the equivalent of it, was to spend 2 cores and after downing a boss on Mythic.

Before it got axed, there was talks about putting Mythic Gear as a Reward for completing a +18. I don’t personally know what happened to the idea, but based on what I have seen, apparently it was not well received and was removed before Midnight went live.

This, all of this. You don’t get to be mad at players that engage in both forms of content

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You’re right. ilvl, spec, and to a lesser extent mythic+ score has never equaled skill, but sadly if you’ve experience life in LFG you’d know that these things matter. In a crowed space it can be very difficult to get into groups.

You can look at it as punishing people that do both or keeping gear in that content type. We used to reward raiders who PVPed as well and vice versa…that went away and the world is doing ok.

I think heroic raid is a separate issue. People that cap at that content aren’t in the world we are talking about…not to say their voice doesn’t matter, but for the topic of this thread I find heroic raid to be irrelevant.

I’d ask you the opposite question then. Why should the game be tuned around high end raiders?

I’m not mad, just throwing out some thoughts

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And I would argue differently. They are apart of this thread, whether you or I deem them relevant to it. M+ has trivialized that branch of content. And while some people went into Mythic Raid, not every single one of them has gotten to CE, and have gotten to see those pieces of loot drop.

The changes to the way the vault is handled for Heroic Raid is another reason they are included in this conversation. Because now when Raiders use the X-core system, they will have the same benefits as those who run in M+ this season.

And you aren’t wrong that separating them wasn’t an issue. Not to mention they have their own gearing system for PvP

When it comes to PvE there are 3 branches of content. Delves which operate fine on thier own, because it is design at its base to be solo content.

M+ and Raids in explicitly linked because they are group content. Even if they add a seperate modifier, I would not argue for this. Both supply gear that the other can used in the others content. Not to mention M+ does provide BiS items for every class.

Gear wise it hasn’t been, and it still won’t be, even with this gear. A 20 man raid still only drops 4 pieces of loot per boss. Compared to how much loot you can get from M+ its still not equal.

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This is 100% going to turn into the same fiasco as no slime cat mount in fated lfr.

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Do you chase 0.1% or even 1% M+ ?

Have you looked into the % of players who have killed last 2 Myth bosses AND ALSO push +20 keys and above?

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When I am actively playing the game I do.

Not the exact numbers…as I mentioned I know it’s a small population considering the amount of people that play the game. All I know is that in the circle of people I play/do keys with the large majority of them are CE raiders that also push keys.

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The game hasn’t been tuned around high-end raiders (aside from the first few weeks of a tier because of the RWF) for a long, long time now. As a matter of fact, this is the first time in a few expansions that such a change is directly benefitting high–end raiders.

And look at all the crying and shoving and pushing that is causing.

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I am tired of people coming into threads just to whine and cry about how much they hate the topic of the thread lol

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Honestly, let’s take a step back and look at the actual numbers here. We are talking about a 9 ilvl difference between a 6/6 and a 9/6 item. In the grand scheme of things, that is minor at best. Stat scaling is marginal, player skill easily overcomes a 9 ilvl deficit, and it only matters if you are a world-first min-maxer.

But more importantly: people who clear the final bosses of a Mythic raid absolutely deserve to be rewarded for it.

Organizing 20 people, aligning schedules, and progressing through dozens (or hundreds) of wipes on the hardest bosses in the game takes an immense amount of time, patience, and coordination. Mythic raiding has a strict weekly lockout system. You can’t just endlessly spam it like dungeons. A slight ilvl bump on a couple of pieces of chase loot from the final bosses is a completely fair reward for that level of dedication.

The arguments to either hand out 9/6 gear in Mythic+ or force raid gear to scale down in keys are just silly:

  • Giving M+ a 9/6 track ruins the reward structure. Mythic+ is fundamentally infinitely repeatable and highly accessible. If you could just farm your weekly high keys to get the absolute highest ilvl in the game, it completely devalues the logistics and effort required to kill an end-tier Mythic raid boss.

  • Scaling raid gear down in M+ makes zero sense. It is actively punishing raiders for participating in another pillar of the game they enjoy. Why should someone who put in the work to kill the hardest bosses in the game have their hard-earned loot arbitrarily nerfed the second they step into a dungeon? It’s a toxic mindset that helps no one.

Treating a 9 ilvl gap like a make-or-break crisis that ruins M+ is a massive stretch. Let raiders have their prestigious end-boss loot. Your key success is still going to boil down to your rotation, mechanics, and interrupts, not a tiny stat bump.

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9/6 myth is pretty good, but it’s not crazy good considering how limited the loot table of those bosses will be for any given individual, and how few pieces will actually drop.

Here is my one and only for real real question concerning the mythic loot:

Is there going to be a supercharge mid-season where everyone’s max level goes up by those same three boost levels, as we’ve had in the past? If so, will the 9/6 go up an ADDITIONAL 3 levels, or will their initial 9/6 just be a sort of head start that others can catch up to in mid patch?

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Since Blizzard is resetting gear so much each season right away they should just let us upgrade all of our gear to 9/6 later in the season.

Open up certain slots so that ascendant voidcores upgrade them in the 1.5 patch, then the rest of the slots in .7. End the season in full 9/6 myth if you want, it gets wiped out by vet track the next season anyway.

Mythic raiders still get their fancy minor advantage in 12.1 until 12.1.5 but everyone can amp up their ilvl later on if they’re still playing the season.

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We will get the weapon, trinket, and new in 12.1 necks but other than that it isn’t like in the past turbo mode where everything went up like in TWW.

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We know venomcores (old Ascendant Void Cores), will exist later in the season and can be applied to most of the same items on the final two bosses loot tables. After Venomcores, which are now weapons, trinkets, and necks, it should be a like 3-4 item level overall increase.
Off the final boss, the only items slots you won’t be able to make 9/6 are a handful for each armor type.

Cloth - Helm, Hand, Feet
Leather - Belt, Helm
Mail - Legs, Chest
Plate - Belt, Chest, Legs

I think there’s an argument to be made about the distribution of specific slots and armor type, but overall 2-3 pieces being 9/6 shouldn’t prevent anyone aiming for 1% or .01% in Mythic Plus.

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Not to a crazy extent, but there’s always been a lot of bis gear from raid, especially trinkets. Now these aren’t always from the final bosses. That said there are usually one or two cantrip items/extra socket items from the last two bosses that tend to be BiS. Such as the necks/ring. As I mentioned before I can accept missing out on a few items as a none CE raider.

You’re right that skill can make up the difference, but we are talking upwards of 6-7 item slots per spec and not to mention main hand weapons which matters significantly for melee classes. These are big numbers. Depending on the spec you’re looking at roughly a 7% difference in dps not counting any cantrip items. So it just feels bad right.

The venomstones will help, but they only go to Myth 8 not Myth 9

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You and most of the WoW populace.

It’s funny that top guilds get CE right at the beginning of the season with a fraction of max ilvl but we have raiders that don’t get CE until 4months later coming in here and pretending like 9/6 myth gear is their birthright.

Chasing gear is a fun part of M+ too.

Being rewarded more by doing more types of content stopped being a valid argument as soon as they gave pvp it’s own gearing process. With 12.1, M+ is the only end-game pillar getting ripped off.

I like your ideas, but either way they need to add gear upgrades for higher keys.

Even without the 9/6 myth gear, myth raiders are still going to have a massive advantage over M+ pushers early on because of crests, to the point that they’ll likely be downgrading mythic crests because they’ll have nothing to spend them on.

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“You and a vocal minority of the WoW populace.”

Oh yes because everyone should just be RWF or CE Level Raiders by the time we are halfway through the patch cycle. And its funny how a minor part of the M+ community is coming in here acting like they are performing content of equivalent value. When you can infinitely farm for gear, crests, and are literally ahead of raiders, if they strictly stuck to raiding alone.

Oh yes, because two diametrically opposing content should be forced to gear one another. There are people who don’t want to do PvP, and are far more willing to another form of PvE content over it. M+ has been the premier way to gear quickly and efficiently. You all have had the cake and now that you are losing 1% of said cake, you all are throwing a fit.

Again, if the community that pushes M+ is small, and the community who completes CE is small, then it stands to reason that the community that participates in both is smaller than either one of those groups. Your argument is being intentionally obtuse.

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It is understandable why those numbers feel significant, but from a practical raiding and simulation standpoint, the 9/6 item level gap is often less impactful than the raw stats suggest.
While a 7% theoretical gap appears daunting on a spreadsheet, here is why that difference rarely translates into a gameplay experience that feels “bad” in practice:

  • Weighting of Secondary Stats: Item level is often a misleading metric because it prioritizes Primary Stats (Intellect, Strength, Agility) over optimal secondary stat distribution. A lower-item-level piece with your “Best in Slot” secondary stats (like Haste or Critical Strike) will often outperform a higher-item-level piece that forces you into sub-optimal secondary stats.

  • The “Player Skill” Floor: Simulation software typically assumes perfect execution (100% uptime, zero wasted globals, perfect cooldown alignment). In real-world raid scenarios, the “human error” variable accounts for significantly more DPS variance than a 9/6 item level difference ever will. The person with higher gear but lower execution will almost always be outperformed by the person with slightly lower gear who manages their priority system and fight mechanics perfectly.

  • Diminishing Returns: Many classes operate on specific breakpoints. Once you have reached the necessary threshold to keep your rotation smooth and your rotational resources stable, additional item level points offer linear growth, not exponential. You aren’t necessarily losing “power” so much as you are losing a marginal percentage of efficiency that is rarely the deciding factor in a kill.

  • The Weapon Exception: You are right that weapons are the most critical slot, but for everything else, the game is designed with enough “budget” that a 9/6 difference is usually mitigated by the synergy of the rest of your gear set.

Ultimately, while seeing a lower number on an item can feel like a disadvantage, it rarely locks you out of performance ceilings. The “feel bad” factor is often more psychological than mathematical and most encounters are tuned to be cleared well within the range of these minor gear disparities, provided the player knows their class well.

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Not gonna your post looks like an AI response. But while this is usually true for jewelry it’s not not always with armor pieces. Primary stat is generally king by a significant margin for most classes

It’s not just seeing a lower number. You are effectively reducing your cap and survivability when you consider stamina increases. And if you’re playing with people that do raid, even if they don’t care, you feel like you’re the one coming to the group subpar which doesn’t feel good.

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