9.2 further sacrifices WoW playerbase to coddle raiders

[Mugrash-azralon]

@Indaria-wyrmrest-accord

If you Raid, you work your butt off and get best gear in game.

If you do the questlines, you get better gear than you had that makes your questlines easier to run.

If you PVP, you get PVP gear.

The problem is raid gear being used for competitive M+, but not the other way around.

[Cicera-zuljin]

@Zothlar-argent-dawn

You’re not seriously alleging that 4-5 ilvl = 2-3k dps right? Right?

Yes. The combination of weapons, dom sockets, and item levels do exactly that. My raider friends are not more skilled than my m+ only friends. Somehow they magic up 14k dps vs 11k dps. 5 item levels is huge in M+ when it’s on the top end. Stats scale DPS especially in AOE situations synergistically. When you have capped out dom sockets and higher item level AND weapons, your burst windows are far greater. You can squeeze a lot more out of the tank.

In ST? No, the difference is smaller. But there is still a difference.

[Nikolo-proudmoore]

@Olfen-ursin

@Nikolo-proudmoore

The competitive game soared for roughly 17 years while the other struggled to catch up for a majority of its existence.

It literally tells us nothing.

Exactly, so what do you think it says about the competitive game now suddenly losing traction while other games flourish?

To me, that says WoW’s design is archaic and is in need of significant change.

Or it means that some of the player base has evolved with age and likely have found that they no longer have time/interest in competitive content.

That doesn’t mean that WoW should change to accommodate because there is still a substantial competitive community.

The better answer is for those players to find games that accommodate their casual play style…which as you have pointed out, many have done.

WoW should not change to accommodate the players that don’t want to play the game as it is designed

[Zothlar-argent-dawn (Zothlar)]

@Liolang-daggerspine

LMAO…ive played every spec in the game guy

LMAO…so have I. So have a lot of people…

@Liolang-daggerspine

i know factually that a list of them CANT do some content alone with the crap gear we get

No, you don’t know that factually, because every spec in the game can do Torghast in Korthia gear. If you can’t, that’s a you problem.

[Cicera-zuljin]

@Nikolo-proudmoore

WoW should not change to accommodate the players that don’t want to play the game as it is designed

This line of thinking is how companies and games alike die. “I don’t need to change, YOU change” - the problem is the company needs customers to survive, the customers don’t need the game to survive. You either adapt to the players or you fall out of style.

[Zothlar-argent-dawn (Zothlar)]

@Cicera-zuljin

Yes. The combination of weapons, dom sockets, and item levels do exactly that.

Why don’t you break down how much of that is weapons, how much is dom sockets, and how much is ilvl? Changing the ilvl of the last 2 mythic bosses to match M+ isn’t going to do anything for weapons or dom sockets, so let’s just stick to the ilvl disparity that you brought up.

[Nikolo-proudmoore]

@Cicera-zuljin

You either adapt to the players or you fall out of style.

The game us 17 years old and it has already fallen out of style.

I would rather for them to put competitive WoW into maintenance mode now than completely destroy what it has been for the last 17 years by changing it Hello Kitty Dress Up Island Adventure to keep making money

[Cicera-zuljin]

@Zothlar-argent-dawn

Why don’t you break down how much of that is weapons, how much is dom sockets, and how much is ilvl? Changing the ilvl of the last 2 mythic bosses to match M+ isn’t going to do anything for weapons or dom sockets, so let’s just stick to the ilvl disparity that you brought up.

That’s fair, 9.2 will be closer than 9.1.5 or 9.1 was, but it’s still not where it needs to be. Sets being available to all goes a long way, just need to clear that ilvl gap and we’re where I want the game to be. Parity. Dom sockets had a lot to do with the giant leaps in burst windows.

[Olfen-ursin]

@Nikolo-proudmoore

Or it means that some of the player base has evolved with age and likely have found that they no longer have time/interest in competitive content.

Correct, and as time goes on, it should be bringing in new players to replace those old players.

League of Legends sustains upwards of ten million active users. Do you think all of those users are the same people from 2008?

There might be some, but I’m more than willing to bet that a majority of those players are people that have joined over the years.

@Nikolo-proudmoore

The better answer is for those players to find games that accommodate their casual play style…which as you have pointed out, many have done.

WoW should not change to placate the players that don’t want to play the game as it is designed

But that’s not how growth works. Change is good for a game. WoW changed significantly between 2004 and 2010 and saw the benefits of changing through the amount of subscriptions it had prior to Cataclysm’s release.

[Dewsbigalo-wyrmrest-accord]

The reason this exists is because they made a raid designer the lead designer of the game. Nothing against Ion but he will always prioritize raiders and that will only keep costing the game in the long run.

[Nikolo-proudmoore]

@Olfen-ursin

WoW changed significantly between 2004 and 2010 and saw the benefits of changing through the amount of subscriptions it had prior to Cataclysm’s release.

And then it continued changing significantly after that and lost around 10 million subs (estimated) over the next 12 years.

Change does not guarantee success

[Frostyjawn-andorhal]

I agree with the overall sentiment, but I don’t think it’s because he willingly does this, it’s because he really has no one around him that’s connected to the casual gamer so he doesn’t see the problem.

[Olfen-ursin]

@Nikolo-proudmoore

And then it continued changing after that and lost around 10 million subs (estimated) over the next 12 years.

And how does that disprove anything I’ve said? Yeah, WoW changed for the worse, but does that mean it should discount the growth it saw when it changed during its first six years?

Change is a double-edged sword that can significantly harm your game if you’re not handling it with the care it needs to be successful. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it, because what’s equally harmful as bad change is no change at all, especially when the competition around you continues to get better.

[Nikolo-proudmoore]

@Olfen-ursin

Change is a double-edged sword that can significantly harm your game if you’re not handling it with the care it needs to be successful.

I agree.

But changing your core game design concept would likely be disastrous.

FF14 is already attracting the casual player base and has accommodated that play style for its entire existence.

WoW is highly unlikely to be competitive in the casual market and any significant attempt to try would most likely alienate much of the competitive community.

The best course of action is for WoW to stick with the only thing that most people can agree that it’s good at…high quality end game content

[Frostyjawn-andorhal]

@Nikolo-proudmoore

WoW is highly unlikely to be competitive in the casual market and any significant attempt to try would most likely alienate much of the competitive community.

The best course of action is for WoW to stick with the only thing that most people can agree that it’s good at…high quality end game content

I think a lot of casual players would accept this–if Blizz said this.

The issue is that Blizz is acting like they need to try and bring players back, and consistently they fail at addressing any of the concerns.

If WoW gets relegated to the “competitive” mmorpg, and they clearly stated that, I believe most would move on.

[Olfen-ursin]

@Nikolo-proudmoore

But changing your core game design concept would likely be disastrous.

WoW’s core game design is not changing by adding new things that appeal to more demographics than just those that want to raid. They can have raids and M+ while also doing other things.

@Nikolo-proudmoore

WoW is highly unlikely to be competitive in the casual market and any significant attempt to try would most likely alienate much of the competitive community.

The best course of action is for WoW to stick with the only thing that most people can agree that it’s good at…high quality end game content

You act like they have to focus on one of these things, and not both.

Blizzard does this to themselves. They leave no room for other content to be focused on because they consistently put in systems that virtually appeals to no one, not even the hardcore players. The result is that they have to spend inane amounts of time balancing the game instead of focusing on content that’s fun for everyone.

Blizzard can do casual content and hardcore endgame content. They just choose not to.

[Vishamani-illidan]

@Rotationn-illidan

MoP was a decade ago, things have changed. Buts its good to see you are here commenting about something you have not done in a decade. Whats your take on flip phones and that new fangled facebook?

well back then i choose wow over life. so you obviously missed the point. over your head and under your feet. now players like myself go life>wow… you too should try it. so i hope that you dont miss the point of the thread which is about people who play for fun on their own time are not able to find a way to attain good gear outside of no life scheduled raiding. players would love a way to get good gear in solo content.

[Zothlar-argent-dawn (Zothlar)]

@Vishamani-illidan

people who play for fun on their own time are not able to find a way to attain good gear outside of no life scheduled raiding.

You’re creating a false dichotomy between “no-life scheduled raiding”, in your case 4-6 hours per night, 4-5 nights a week, and strictly solo world content. There is an enormous array of options between them, and lots of ways to get good gear without devoting 30 hours (lol) per week.

[Birds-stormrage]

@Rotationn-illidan

Because why? Its the hardest group content and its always been that way.

It’s not the hardest group content. There’s something called Mythic Plus that scales infinitely.

[Paen-area-52]

This post is nonsense (like most things people on classic accounts post)

@Mirella-myzrael

Gear earned from outdoor content is limited to the iLvl 229-249 range, far below the power levels required to complete new content.

What new content? Zereth Mortis? that’s more than high enough iLvL, 249 is on par with Mythic+7 and just below Normal raid gear.

@Mirella-myzrael

Layer 16 is tuned to a maximum iLvl of 285, which cannot be reasonably completed by a casual player due to the failure of outdoor content rewards to keep pace with the patch cadence. No further bonuses are available, and gear drops are still not available.

It is not a reasonable expectational for a player who chooses to only participate in outdoor content to be able to complete the highest levels of Torghast (which is indoors, I might add)

@Mirella-myzrael

Gear earned from PvP is still inferior in PvE content in iLvl and still requires rating and currency to upgrade. PvP will be an inferior method of earning the new tier set armor pieces compared to raiding.

Working as intended, PvP gear is best for PvP or doing world content in Warmode.