Also Lilian’s father Benedictus Voss is there, just to the north of Helya on the same level (don’t go up any stairs) at the far end of the prison cells.
Oh shoot, that’s kind of a big deal as far as these one-off cameos go.
I am so very curious about him being there. Did he get dragged there as a present from the Jailer from somewhere else? I know he was bad news, but the Maw seems like overkill from what we know of him; I would have guessed he’d end up in Revendreth like the other Scarlets we’ve seen if he was judged of needing to work on some flaws. Did he go to Revendreth and fail his chance at atonement? Lilian better get a chance to at least comment on him being in the Maw if nothing else, preferably a lot more than that.
He was a scarlet crusader (bad) who as per the Lilian questline, raised her to be a killer, (abusive) and when she became undead tried to commit filicide (super bad).
Traditionally, and hopefully also contemporarily, killing one’s children is super bad. In fact, in Greek myth, killing any member of one’s family immediately sends the Furies after you to kill you. Immediately. And he did not only that, but was also a murderous religious zealot and an abusive father (raising your kid to be a religious assassin is bad).
I think it’s bad enough Orc Hitler (Garrosh) got sent to Purgatory, presumably because of “what he used to be” and “what he could’ve been”, but the narrative has to drawn the line somewhere.
It’s perfectly good and reasonable if Sicco Thermaplug (Traitor, Genocide via Chemical Warfare) and Benny Voss went to Hell, straight to Hell, no Purgatory. Truly. Add in Gul’dan (need I explain), Blackmoore (slaver and abuser), Putress, etc.
In the wise words of Cryptkeeper Kassir: “There are always more souls to save, but do not forget that some are already lost.”
I’m well aware that Benedictus Voss was a horrible, abusive father, and that the Scarlet Crusade was evil, it’s just that I don’t see him as being worse than people like Theolen Krastinov. The Accuser successfully committed filicide, after all, in addition to being some sort of professional assassin. There are also plenty of Scarlet Crusaders in Revendreth; clearly membership in that organization alone is not enough to earn a trip directly to the Maw. Whatever line there is between Revendreth and the Maw in terms of who is sent there has not been clearly drawn, and I just find it hard to believe that Benedictus Voss was judged worthy of going straight to the Maw when someone who earned the title of “World Reaper” was not only sent to Revendreth, but successfully atoned and became one of the Accuser’s loyal Inquisitors. I interpret that statement from Cryptkeeper Kassir as referring to those who are sent to Revendreth and refuse to work towards atonement, not those who are sent directly to the Maw. I would find it entirely believable if Benedictus Voss was such a case.
I will mention that I personally think there is a strictly logistical reason to send even the worst souls to Revendreth first instead of the Maw traditionally, in that the Venthyr process of draining souls of anima first before deciding if they are worthy of redemption or damnation would normally keep the Maw, and thus the Jailer, starved of anima. If a major function of the Maw is to keep the Jailer contained and sending anima there makes him stronger, it would make sense to send evil souls to Revendreth first to drain them of anima unless doing so would pose a threat to the Shadowlands.
While the Accuser was tricked into killing her own daughter, definitely still feels like she was killing children for money. Could also have been that people who she had wronged for profit set her up to kill her own daughter to get back at her.
Benedictus was perfectly sane as a murderous religious extremist; he chose that path, and rationally chose to kill his daughter. Theolen went insane and became employed by Scholomance.
And while his sinstone does state “Madness is no excuse”; it is still evidently taken into consideration.
IMO it is:
Theolen’s sinstone reveals terrible sins but not fully done by your rational choice provide a chance for repentance.
Devin’s sinstone reveals that meaning well but having negative consequences because of it still requires repentance.
Faedra’s sinstone reveals that helping people but intentionally letting some others die (murder by neglect) requires repentance.
Dresh-Kevan had a just cause, but her methods were sufficiently brutal to warrant penance.
Kil’brek the Consumer was granted a chance in Revendreth because he showed mercy one time, and was executed because of it. Martyrdom after a moment of repentance in life.
Kael’thas betrayed and corrupted his people but he was also used by Kil’jaeden
Etc.
In general we see the following:
- Rational choice matters
- Free will in that choice matters (ie coercion)
- The action matters
- The intent matters
- The cause matters
- The effect matters
- The choice of goodness (mercy, justice, regret, repentance) even if last minute also matters
Thus if someone chooses evil, was not coerced in doing so, did evil, with the intent of evil, for an evil cause, to an evil effect, and never chose goodness, they go to the Maw.
I 100% agree but Danuser said otherwise so womp lol 
Through deception, not of her own will, knowingly. And thus it became a regret; the story even implies she killed herself because of it I think as it was the last job she did, if I recall.
The dimension of regret on some level is fundamental in these cases.
WoW just copied Catholic harmatology lol
Revendreth’s morality system does seem entirely arbitrary. Even genocide somehow does not necessarily send one to the Maw:
- The Grievous Sins of the Most High Priestess Syrebriel Tholaron, 46th Queen of Galekondor.
Her greatest crime was the obliteration of the Kelmondi people. Not content with wiping them all out, she had their lands salted and rendered uninhabitable for a dozen generations.
Her reason for this vile action against a peaceful people that opted to surrender to her forces? On her deathbed she confided to her historian that she just didn’t like the Kelmondi as a rule, finding their cheerfulness irritating.
In the end, I think the only thing that would really keep anyone from being sent to the Maw would be how useful Denathrius had thought they might be to him.
I mean certainly, many venthyr were Sired by him and his group, precisely for that reason, but the sinstones we find around the zone are supposed to be the people who have moved on and were “saved” by the Good Venthyr who follow their mission.
Thus from them we can gleam how it’s supposed to work.
Considering Garrosh is apparently in the 9.1 raid, I’m getting the sense that Denathrius might have basically dumped most of the souls he had being processed at Castle Nathria into the Maw along with his stockpiles of anima.
So anyone else familiar who we find there may or may not have actually gone straight to the Maw. They might have been part of Denathrius’ personal collection of “workhorses” that he flushed down to the Jailer to keep them from being captured by Renethal’s rebellion and properly harvested in Revendreth.
This was the case even before Detharius was uncovered, as we saw with the Depraved Judges sending souls to the Maw and the Accuser having to sire Gresit.
And yet we still have sinstones of souls that have moved on around the zone, because not all Venthyr were following Denathrius. So again, we have evidence of how it’s supposed to work, as I’ve outlined.
The question isn’t how it’s supposed to work. The question is if souls we see in the Maw actually ended up there because they failed the system or if they were thrown there on a whim.
Obfuscated by Venthyr with soulstones that make them sound like they really should have been thrown into the Maw but weren’t.
Thermaplug and Ben Voss both reasonably fit this criteria:
Garrosh conveyed regret and pain in his final battle with Thrall, and Arthas also expressed regret. The former went to Revendreth and the latter likely would’ve gone.
But Ben Voss, Thermaplug, Guldan, Blackmoore, Archbishop Benedictus, Puttress and arguably Sylvanas all fit the criteria consistently, especially the unrepentant part. There was no conversion of the heart at the last moment, like with Kilbrek The Consumer.
Criteria of your speculation.
Houndmaster Loksey and Queen Tholaron did not sound particularly repentant or regretful.
Nope derived from the sinstones of those who the game tells us have moved on.
Moving on isn’t the issue. Souls are given eons in Revendreth to atone. And as we saw the system had not been giving souls a chance randomly for an indeterminate amount of time, while other unrepentant souls were still going through the process for yet unstated reasons.
Yes and if souls lack any of the criteria we can see leads to Revendreth and confirmed salvation, we can thus derive what leads to the Maw.
And souls like Houndmaster Loksey and Queen Tholaron do not fit your speculation, yet the Venthyr still bothered to try to make them atone.