I mean, it is all speculation at this point, but when asked about it they said they will look into it when that time comes but they are focused on classic for now.
So that means it’s a possibility for sure. Not confirmed by any means but it is possible.
And it mutes the social dynamic of every game it’s in. No longer are groups encouraged to get along (at all costs) during a lengthy dungeon. Now you just kick anybody you disagree with by a vote, whether it’s justified or not, and get a near-instant replacement. It has a prominent “assembly line” feeling to it.
Because that is exactly what it is. You are no longer Phront that one hunter who always pulls trash like a dipspit, you are RANDOHUNTER#3421 in peoples eyes. On top of that the people you are with have literal no repercussions for acting like a twit
I have no doubt Classic will see a large influx upon release. Then, I predict several factors leading to rapid attrition; including, but not limited to:
My favorite will be the Vanilla vets, who are about to have those pretty rose-tinted glasses forcibly ripped from their faces. Don’t kid yourselves; there will be a whole lot of those.
That server will be a ghost town within three months.
The server could be literally empty and I would still log in every morning and go fishing with my warlock while I drink coffee; checking emails and Jira at the start of my day. Just happy I finally get to come home to the world (of warcraft) I love.
funny because my friend, inside of a month went from having not played since wrath to being around 380 ilvl…
gearing up in modern wow is incredibly easy.
professions are a joke and reputations are insanely easy as well.
Thats not instant either. Semantics.
None of those remastered games are an MMO, and none of them are pay to play.
THAT is the elephant in the room, and one that cannot be ignored. Gameplay itself is subtle in approach and definite in terms of paradigm, But when you attach a monetary cost to a pastime, the consequence of time spent in that pastime, what is accomplished, and what it COSTS overall, is a factor that cannot be ignored.
Are there other MMOs with an LFD system? Yes, they all have them now.
Why?
Marketplace demand and a shift in the way in which groups are formed. Gamers DO NOT want to waste precious time trying to get groups and wind up doing one instance…it isnt time efficient.
Remember what I said about demographics?
When you are a kid or in school (then again, being in a time intensive MMO whilst in school is stupid, the focus needs to be on your studies, not on a game. That time is better spent in study. Games are whenever. Schools mean the rest of your life) you may have more time to waste…after that, no you dont.
Take a look at what the ESA ( the US variant() says about gaming and ages
64% of US households own a device that They use to play video games.
The average gamer is 34 years old.
Gamers age 18 or older represent more than 70 percent of the video game-playing population.
Heres what I am driving at
The average age of the most frequent game purchaser is 36
When you consider the Vanilla model, when you factor in a pay to play model, ESPECIALLY when you factor in time intensive to get anywhere - they are self contradictory.
It wont sell.
Older retro games, yes, but those can be picked up and saved and put away and come back to as a single player experience. We are discussing MMO design, which is a far cry from the 2004 days…by necessity.
Here’s the thing. Wildstar came out of left field. If I was going to make a hardcore mmo I would choose an established franchise to do so with.
That way I have a ready fan base to draw upon
Correct. I would argue however, that even with an established fanbase, its lifespan would be small. Pay to play as the model? Unlikely. There are I think maybe two or three pay to play MMOs left.
And it mutes the social dynamic of every game it’s in
Opinion, little else. Both SWTOR and Wildstar did not have an LFD system, Wildstar refused to add it…SWTOR did, albeit way too late. If it as bad as you say it is, why was the system adopted across the board?
Market forces and what the gaming public demand.
Hytatemo: I am trying to. It would help with less personal attacks.
The sneer “you lost get over it”, ignoring the fact I have said TWICE I was wrong.
sigh
It’s not an opinion that social interactions in Dungeon Finder™ situations are vastly different from what you’d find in a game where groups are found manually and are made to travel to the dungeon of their own accord.
Being teleported to the dungeon instantly is “instant gratification” whether you want to argue the semantics or not.
“Market forces and what the gaming public demand” gave us the current version of World of Warcraft that the vast majority of this forum wants to revert from. Market forces and public demand have no place in Classic for the time being.
It’s not an opinion that social interactions in Dungeon Finder™ situations are vastly different from what you’d find in a game where groups are found manually and are made to travel to the dungeon of their own accord.
Oh?
ive been in a few free to play MMOs where that wasnt the case at all.
the vast majority of this forum
I think I see the problem with your argument. This forum is a very very small fraction of the playerbase, and even then thats an exaggeration.
Now…can you speak for the gaming public as a whole? No and neither can I…but I can and will note and observe changes over the last fourteen years. I might also add that what you consider “social”, others consider inconvenient and wasting valuable time.
See the whole board…you need to look at gaming as an INTERNATIONAL marketplace which is another issue entirely. Lets say you make a game that uses the old Vanilla model. To break even you have to get to the international scene, because you cant ignored the potential revenue to break even with dev costs.
Heres what a gaming company has foremost in their minds from day one:
Are we making a game people will want to play, and will want to buy.
Getting to top tier level of an MMO within a month is for SURE considered widely as being instantly gratifying, especially when compared to older versions where you would be like what…level 35?
Im a little lost on this one, to clarify. can you please expand on your meaning of “top tier”? Just so I dont go off on the wrong way ![:smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smile.png?v=6" ":smile:")
And yet it’s a great place to gauge the opinions of the playerbase who actually requested and wants to play Classic for its own sake.
Which is exactly why Classic is going to exist as its own game with its own servers. People who don’t want to “waste time” are more than welcome to play BfA (or any future expansion), while the people who care more about social investments and long-term play will be in Classic.
Two groups of people, two separate games. Congratulations; you already have the game you want. It’s called World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth right now.
Not right now I don’t. I’m looking at gaming as “I want Classic, other people want Classic, so let’s get Classic.”
He stated he got around 380 item level where as the top content in BfA being mythic uldir drops what? 385? So he is at the top tier or the last possible content he could achieve before there is nothing else higher to do (obvious excluding rerunning content for titan forge or getting highest gear possible). So he is basically at the final stage of the game within a month where as within a month on any of the earlier versions you wouldn’t even be close to max level unless you REALLY no lifed it
Two groups of people, two separate games. Congratulations; you already have the game you want. It’s called World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth right now.
Okay - lets look at it from another angle.
Hypothetical: a brand new game vs WOW with an established playerbase. The game is made on Vanilla lines and encompasses how Vanilla was. You have no established playerbase, and are starting from scratch.
No LFD FR no catchups, none of the QoL features. Vanilla as it was.
The game costs lets say…5 - 8 million to make (and no thats not an exaggeration, thats realistic). What do you think the chances are that they will sell enough units to break even in the 2018 marketplace?
Not right now I don’t. I’m looking at gaming as “I want Classic, other people want Classic, so let’s get Classic.”
How long do you think WOW would have lasted if it hadnt been marketed and sold globally from day one?
Nicho
I read this, and to date I cant remember seeing one player at that ilevel without setting foot inside Normal at as MINIMUM. One or two pieces, I grant you.
MAYBE. Thats a rare chance.
But overall?
Not sure thats ever happened.
This is of absolutely no relevance to the discussion at hand, but I think such a hypothetical game might sell better than you think if it’s actually made well and is properly marketed. The problem with a lot of MMO competitors is that they just aren’t made well; they don’t have the appealing setting/history of Warcraft. WoW was definitely propped up by the three previous Warcraft games, such that people were excited to play it based on pedigree more than just its own merits.
Then its own merits grew it to the point of 8 million+ subscribers.
I think it would still be around, albeit with a smaller market share overall.
You are very lost in this convo trust me
I thought it wasn’t sold in China until later?
Just one observation
This is of absolutely no relevance to the discussion at hand, but I think such a hypothetical game might sell better than you think if it’s actually made well and is properly marketed
Maybe, Maybe not.
But heres the kicker. How many companies would be prepared to take that kind of gamble? Very very few. Thats the issue here: they know what sells and what doesnt.
Vanilla as a concept is good for nostalgia, but is NOT viable as a long term project.
I have work to do, so I will leave it there. Thank you all for an interesting and very civil discourse.
alot of them dont have jobs, the reasons for which are varied (globalists sold their jobs to china, india, s. korea, mexico) being foremost. they have plenty of time on their hands, and the game token (the most brilliant decision i’ve seen in a game) makes it so they can play for free (with classic i imagine they’ll have to maintain a functional copy of each new expac, so not totally free but close enough).
the elephant in the room is globalism sucks. 