8.2.5 Discussions (Spoilers Ahoy!)

We all know this is how BfA is going to end:

https://imgur.com/uOvTDMP

Might as well come to terms and accept it now.

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I’m curious what you mean by “drop in the bucket.”

Both have suffered heavily… directly because of Sylvanas. The NElves and Worgen have, obviously, suffered the most between every people on either faction. But I don’t see how the sufferance is any less.

Are you really going to compare chaining up Baine and sending assassins who don’t wind up killing anyone to wiping out a major population center?

And?

Had they previously been under the impression that they shared values with Sylvanas, I would expect something like: “Wow, we used to like you, but now you’ve caused us serious problems and gotten a lot of our people killed for bad reasons, we clearly can’t work with you anymore.” If they weren’t under that impression, I would instead expect: “Wow, we never liked you to begin with, and now you’ve caused us serious problems and gotten a lot of our people killed for bad reasons. We definitely won’t work with you anymore.”

I really just don’t see why never seeing eye to eye with Sylvanas in the first place would make anyone more accommodating of her decision to screw them over.

Why would the Horde, after ousting Sylvanas from power, ever go “We don’t have a choice” about working with her again?

I dont see forgiveness in the future, itd also be dumb.

What would be nice if all the grumpy ppl told her to chill out and she listened. Then put someone else in charge (not nathanos) of operations while she go brood in a corner and stay out of blizz sight.

Maybe she works on infrastructure or something

That is not at all what I said. In fact, I pointed out that the NElves and worgen had suffered most out of either faction.

I’m not downplaying just how heinous that was in any way, shape, or form.

So, I will compare every other manipulation, death, suicide mission, and betrayal. I’m not even trying to compare the value of each life lost… given that the Horde, I think, should have less people and more races that are closer to extinction.

So. I’m going to ask again, with Teldrassil set aside as I have already acknowledged it, how is the sufferance that different? Or is that your defining example? And, to further clarify, it is a fair and reasonable example.

I’m not looking for some snide comment or to have words put in my mouth. I’m not doing it to you, so I’d appreciate you not doing it to me.

I mean sure if they’re okay with 1) being culpable in her parade of atrocities, 2) never having the faintest glimmer of a chance for peace by virtue of continuing to openly support a genocidal murderer.

I do kinda feel bad for the Forsaken now, honestly. Because whatever growth and steps forward to not be considered monsters has just been shot down because of Sylvanas if everything continues to play out the way we think it is.

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You’ve just described the Horde’s average Tuesday. Heyo!

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While “How do we evaluate Sylvanas’ leadership if we just exclude the burning of Teldrassil from consideration?” is an interesting academic question I’m not sure I want to get into it.

I mean, the simple answer is “she’s terrible,” and I already have a tasteful power point presentation for it…

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A Tasteful presentation about Sylvanas? Now that would be impressive.

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The simple answer is “she’s terrible.” The more accurate answer is “Blizzard is out of ideas.”

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I mean if we’re talking about the Shadowlands leak then likely the conflict between Sylvanas and Tyrande would be a major driver of the faction conflict in the next expansion.

Though I don’t think there is normally a leak this early so I’m skeptical now that I’ve had some time to think it over.

Imagine trying to pitch “Let’s do MoP all over again except at the end we’ll find out Garrosh is really trying to save the world.”

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The only way I can see the “sylvanas was the good guy all along lmao” angle working is if whatever voidy death thing she is fighting against is the same force which would make her afterlife so horrific. A while ago her motivation was established as “survive as long as possible because I’m goin to hell”, and killing whatever makes the afterlife so hellish is actually consistent with that.

If they portray her as a truly selfless character it goes entirely against everything we know about her, but if she is doing evil things to fight another evil force entirely for her own benefit it kinda works.

Probably easier to do when you fired 800 people.

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Blizzard never really had any new ideas in the first place

They’ve been using the exact same tropes for 14 years

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I should clarify before anyone gets the wrong idea.

Blizzard has had some genuinely great and fun stuff. I’ve always looked at Blizzard products as the big fun summer Blockbusters that I love going to see. It’s not really going to push any boundaries but damn if it isn’t gonna be a ton of fun.

Now though?

They are the studio that consistently drops their worst movies at the tail end of January.

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I’m really not pumped for yet another expansion where the whole premise is a silly plot device that lets Blizzard bring back all their old dead lore characters to coast on nostalgia instead of actually writing anything interesting.

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