8.1 may be the end


(Fantan) #21
11/04/2018 01:38 PMPosted by Varrow
I admit I just play my monk very casually, but to me the Karma/Touch of Death being such an absurd amount of damage right now causes a lot of the frustration for me. WW got like a 8% aura buff so far I think? To make up for losing karma/death damage.

The pacing is maybe just barely off, but the gameplay of the spec feels fairly similar to Legion to me in a lot of ways? It's just been balanced all wonky. And I do still hate the gcd stuff with Xuen/SEF/ToD and still trying to generate Chi in there too during cooldowns. That feels bad for sure.


WW isn't among some of the worst right now, but it's not good, and I don't think the aura buff is going to be enough. WW doesn't have much an identity anymore, and mystic touch isn't WW identity. I remember when we used to have a bunch of fun mechanics like Tigers Eye Brew, and neat looking spells like spinning fire blossom. All of them gone. Storm Earth and Fire is a poorly coded shell of it's former self. We had Strike of the Windlord in Legion, and it felt rewarding to use. We've been over pruned. All we have left is our touches, and FoF which feels so unrewarding to use. Again this isn't exclusive to WW. This is a problem for a lot of classes, and while some of the Azerite traits in 8.1 look better than what we had before, it doesn't make up for the over pruning. We have all been gutted.

(Ornasse) #22
As someone who has not purchased BFA yet, 8.1 is not enough. I won't come back until the issues that make the game not fun for me are fixed, and that includes class design and alt leveling. Hearing that flight won't be until 8.2 or later means it's going to be a long time before I even consider subbing again.

Edit - Vendors don't mean anything to me, I don't do M+. Make the game actually fun for people other than raiders and M+ addicts.

(Frexx) #23
It's not just game mechanics/class/content issues, it's also quality of life issues that have been compounding and continually ignored for the past three+ expansions.

For example, we can have a million new races running around, but we aren't allowed to transmog the armor type we want because of "class identity."

The new alliance race is obesity incarnate.

What we got to replace tier sets is mostly ugly garbage.

(Pinkiedrood) #24
Top thing I wanted out of BFA that was advertised as a big feature: Kul Tiran Humans.

Top thing I'm still waiting on in BFA: Kul Tiran Humans.

Things I can think of off the top of my head that I've really enjoyed so far: Very little.

(Malchior) #25
When you can't even balance classes themselves, why would you implement a system that makes it even more complicated on top of that?

GET BACK TO THE BASICS FIRST!

That is, class design without any gear or items should be fun and mechanically engaging. Once that's done, you can add in set bonuses or azerite armor shenanigans.

Do NOT fix classes with items and set bonuses.

(Waywithwords) #26
It's been shocking to me how hard it is to find groups for world bosses at off-peak hours. It used to be virtually instant in Legion. Now we end up waiting around for 10, 20 minutes, eventually figuring out who needs to switch specs to make the boss even possible. The game truly is dying.

(Masoschism) #27
11/04/2018 01:57 PMPosted by Fantan
We have all been gutted.
Actually there are about 5 or 6 specs that have somehow survived a large part of the constant pruning. They aren't that difficult to find. Just look at any leaderboard.

(Aethien) #28
They just need to make the game available on mobile like they did with Diablo :p

(Aethevale) #29
11/04/2018 06:55 PMPosted by Aethien
They just need to make the game available on mobile like they did with Diablo :p
Yep, cause that's working so well for them :)

(Fantan) #30
11/04/2018 06:33 PMPosted by Masoschism
11/04/2018 01:57 PMPosted by Fantan
We have all been gutted.
Actually there are about 5 or 6 specs that have somehow survived a large part of the constant pruning. They aren't that difficult to find. Just look at any leaderboard.


5 or 6 out of 36 specs isn't a good place to be. If your spec still works then good for you, but it doesn't represent the overall health of class balance.

(Yvaelle) #31
My sub expires in January, I've already cancelled it.

(Ponypwn) #32
The diablo immortal reveal went down like a lead balloon by all accounts. But truthfully they will probably make a killing on it.

And Im not sure how much Ion can be blamed for the current state of BFA. After all he has managers and bosses too.

Either way, both diablo immortal, and the current trickle feed early access model of BFA seems to indicate that the only concern to blizzard executives is the stock price and dividend, not the current fan base

Perhaps by 8.3 it will more closely resemble a finished AAA title.

(Whyit) #33
It honestly doesn't matter what content they put in the game if class design isn't fixed.

I believe the biggest problem is that most specs feel incomplete and/or ineffective without specific azerite traits, and some just don't feel complete because half of what used to be baseline is in the talent trees.

A lot of specs feel like shells of their former selves, which is both a leftover from Legion artifacts and a new symptom of general class design and philosophy where classes are completed by additional systems like Azerite.

Classes should be complete straight out of the box and Azerite traits/tier sets/artifacts/legendaries or whatever system it is should augment or alter that complete class kit. They should be bonuses, not necessary components of the class to make them feel whole.

(Hërn) #34
Movement & Utility abilities are being taken back off the GCD

Truthfully this will be pure cancer to casters in PvP, we have had most of our movement abilities removed and already suffer near 100 percent uptime from melee. Now we get Heroic Leaped with a high front loaded Burst in one move.

Warriors, Monks, Demon Hunters, and Rogues are already zipping around like Sonic the Hedgehog on acid.

(Cryptcrowley) #35
11/04/2018 11:07 PMPosted by Hërn
Movement & Utility abilities are being taken back off the GCD

Truthfully this will be pure cancer to casters in PvP, we have had most of our movement abilities removed and already suffer near 100 percent uptime from melee. Now we get Heroic Leaped with a high front loaded Burst in one move.

Warriors, Monks, Demon Hunters, and Rogues are already zipping around like Sonic the Hedgehog on acid.

That's the main reason that you see no caster in the arena finals other than boomkin. We casters used to have ways to kite melee or withstand heavy punishment, but now I just feel like a melee punch bag.

(Dirtymind) #36
11/04/2018 06:33 PMPosted by Masoschism
11/04/2018 01:57 PMPosted by Fantan
We have all been gutted.
Actually there are about 5 or 6 specs that have somehow survived a large part of the constant pruning. They aren't that difficult to find. Just look at any leaderboard.
But players don't want to chase the meta down the rabbit hole, cause that is so messed up... by the time the meta is locked down, you get that toon geared the nerf bat comes down and your in the same position as you were when you started.

Players experience the game through the class and spec they love, the attachment to your favourite avatar is a deep experience for many players. Its an invested bond for many... either its just the play style, or the fantasy, or just after decade or more you and that toon have been through a lot together. This is my main... I want to have a good experience with it always.

If your class feels bad, the game feels bad, if your spec is broken, you as a player feel broken.

(Ojoverde) #37
Dont you have phones guys? The game is heading mobile.

(Lurios) #38
By now BfA, at the class design level, has gone.
This is the feeling I have about it.
Reading the last Q&A, no mention was made of the class design problem.
Some classes have received new talents or remixing of these but this does not solve the fact that the base specs are now really reduced to the bone

It's also true that rethinking the classes / specs from 0 really takes a lot of time and it's definitely not a job you can do between patches.

At this point it would be more logical to end this expansion as quickly as possible and with the new one (if there is of course) to rethink the new game system and class approach.

It is this that now most of all needs wow, evolve and move on (obviously not in the mobile sector).

What has been done in BfA seems to me almost like accompanying an old man towards his decline.

(sorry for the bad english)

(Themyscus) #39
11/03/2018 05:45 PMPosted by Gumble
People are leaving, guilds look empty, friends list don't log on anymore, PTR looks horrible, Blizzcon is incredibly insulting to Blizzard fans....

Been a loyal Blizzard customer since vanilla..... been a Blizzard customer since Warcraft, Orcs vs Humans way back in middle school......

I'll be subbed til December 11th. If you can't turn this !@#$ around, I'm done with your company. Your cinematic team is amazing, however the game is going to %^-* and I'm seeing no effort to course correct.

Guess it has to come to an end at some point.


This......while I am genuinely impressed by the story coming in 8.1 and beyond as revealed at Blizzcon that all means nothing to me when the company as a whole seems to view their overall fanbase with disdain("What you guys dont have phones"). By overall I mean overall(Diablo giving you a hard glare right now). It is clear that Blizzard have become nothing but drones for Activisions micro-transaction "you play this and you'll like it" mentality. My sub runs until December 4th....you'll be getting me for one more month after that because 8.1, but if 8.1 is absolute garbage you can kiss me, someone, who like the OP played Warcraft Orcs and Humans when he was 12 years old and has played WoW since vanilla), goodbye. I have already re-subbed to Final Fantasy 14 and find that much more fulfilling. This transcends the quality of the games at this point. Your company is making a mockery out of the marketing and public relations professions....do better.

Edit:When all of the streamers have picked up on the fact that your scrubbing comments from ur Diablo Immortals release video you're gonna have a bad time.

(Favi) #40
There is more quality content and a steady delivery of content in every development 3 month cadence now than at any other time. The WoW what next announcements and previews look amazing.

It just kind of sucks trying to play the content with one of several lame classes that were maimed by BFA class design and in part the itemization progression system of Azerite armor.

I just wish they would spend more resources ensuring that player class gameplay was maintained at the level they were performing prior to the Legion pre-patch, or as they gave themselves the option to do, not apply all aspects of the patch for class who were good one day and requiring 3-5 months of additional rework the next day. It was the delivery of an acknowledged problem that's left many BFA players in a kind of lurch. Splitting off 5-8 different abilities into at most 1-3 randomly chosen passive effects was a mindblowing (bullet) of a decision of class design for the sake of itemization "interest".

Gameplay first, as a principle, for WoW is probably different than for many of their other games. Too much was stressed on "what can players gain, how are players rewarded" and not enough was stressed on "how will players play, what are their powers". And that's not about how that works at the end-game, but rather how that works in the first 15 minutes (of the expansion anyway).

I want to be optimistic about the class changes coming, but it's hard to be sometimes. And much of the damage to everything else has been done in many cases.