*Alliance gets to kill another Horde leader as a raid boss and sack another capitol city*
Aliiance players: "HORDE BIAS WTF!"
10/09/2018 08:41 PMPosted by
Ryzos We literally had full dedicated zones to Horde allied races.
I hate this argument because it is so !@#$ing false. Nothing in Highmountain or Suramar indicated that they had anything to do with the Horde. The questlines were 100% identical for both factions. They only became Horde after the fact. This is an absolutely misleading equivalency to me following Tyrande and Malfurion through the Night Elf heritage zone of Val'sharah, and then following Velen and the Draenei to their freaking home planet to get submerged in Draenei / Turalyon lore for 3 months.
10/10/2018 05:16 PMPosted by
Tabaqui 10/10/2018 01:17 PMPosted by
JohaƬs ...
https://m.imgur.com/ZnBZdoG
Frigging yikes.
and you wonder why I post about bias
Plus, Nathanos scooping up the corpses and running avoids the two instances where Blizzard is now stuck retconning the lore because they're not supposed to just be able to raise night elves from the dead, and it makes zero sense that people you literally just killed would then fight on your behalf because of some crisis of faith.
I believe the lore is actually covered on both those points.
Sylvanas can raise human corpses on her own, but needs the val'kyr or the Lich King to raise non-humans. Having the val'kyr raise nelfs isn't any different than h/belfs being raised.
Also if someone dies in the heat of battle, the devs have said there is a period of time where they come back with so much bloodlust that they just see Sylvanas as the person who brought them back and fight her enemies. Later when the bloodlust wears off, they get their own thoughts back. Also when Forsaken are raised in quiet circumstances, like Deathknell, they get their free will immediately.
I'm pretty sure that Delaryn coming back bloodlusty is a big stretch though. She had a long, thoughtful and fairly calm talk with Sylvanas while she was dying.
10/10/2018 05:38 PMPosted by
Ryzos 10/10/2018 05:16 PMPosted by
Tabaqui ...
Frigging yikes.
and you wonder why I post about bias
No, I really don't. You don't see anything from any perspective that might undermine your own, or take into account anything that contradicts you.
I'm perfectly willing to admit when things pertaining to one side or the other are shoddily done. I just don't think it's one-sided like you do.
10/09/2018 08:39 PMPosted by
CaelƮn Tyrande losing is the worst part. Because like you said, what was the point?
Way to continue to kick the Night Elves when they are down.
If true, Tyrande losing to Nathanos (not even Windrunner herself), on the heels of M. Stormrage, one of the most powerful mortals on Azeroth (second maybe to Thrall...maybe) losing to Sylv, and OMG...really? Did this generation of Blizz devs even play WC3?
<span class="truncated">...</span>
and you wonder why I post about bias
No, I really don't. You don't see anything from any perspective that might undermine your own, or take into account anything that contradicts you.
I'm perfectly willing to admit when things pertaining to one side or the other are shoddily done. I just don't think it's one-sided like you do.
Because I pick my battles, if I'm on the forums saying something is an issue its usually because its an issue and things I point out are usually not new points they are things lots of other players have seen and talked about. I make threads on it to point out.
And in all honesty the way Blizzard has handled the Alliance in development for most modern expansions.. They do deserve all the negative feedback. There are plenty of things I completely agree Blizzard doesn't deserve the heat it gets. But in the issues I have brought and their general favoring of one faction over another, I have no sympathies, the criticism they get is entirely justified.
10/10/2018 05:19 PMPosted by
Tabaqui ...
What "majority of the playerbase" are you talking about? Aside from a couple internet-bad@!@# neckbeards, the vast majority of the Horde playerbase is very disgruntled with the whole psycho thing.
People aren't mad he's a traitor to Sylvanas. They're mad because he's a spineless marshmallow who is a fraction of the man his father was.
Ah to have a real story, how I envy you lol
See, this is why y'all see bias. Because you think running around with the idiot ball somehow constitutes a real story. As a writer, let me assure you: it is not. The writing for the Horde is monumentally dumb, with very few exceptions.
That is not, however, to say the Alliance writing is particularly great. With the exception of Jaina (post-deux ex boat) and Talanji, there's no really interesting writing happening. Being generic "good guys" who never lose the moral high ground no matter what they do isn't any more interesting than being generic "bad guys" who somehow stoop to genocide without a care in the world.
Honestly? I would LOVE to see the Horde lose big. Like, so big they have to slink around in the shadows being hunted. That would be amazing. THAT would be a great story.
That it isn't going to happen isn't because of bias. It's because of the amount of WORK it would take in the game world to make it happen. Any writing that actually changes the world is a monumental amount of work. Even changing the UC and Teldrassil was a huge effort for the art and programming teams. Parts of the world that should CLEARLY look very differently right now, just don't.
The writers aren't great AND they're limited by the amount of change they can actually effect.
1 Like
Because I pick my battles, if I'm on the forums saying something is an issue its usually because its an issue and things I point out are usually not new points they are things lots of other players have seen and talked about. I make threads on it to point out.
And in all honesty the way Blizzard has handled the Alliance in development for most modern expansions.. They do deserve all the negative feedback. There are plenty of things I completely agree Blizzard doesn't deserve the heat it gets. But in the issues I have brought and their general favoring of one faction over another, I have no sympathies the criticism they get is entirely justified.
Because if you say it's an issue, it's an issue and entirely justified.
'kay.
Unfortunately for Alliance the narrative designer lives vicariously through Nathanos he will never let his waifu lose.
Yeah the story in 8.1 is abysmal. I don't know who has a Nathanos fetish at Blizz but they need to take a cold shower. That MFer is literally on godmode right now. And I get it, he's "the first human ranger lord" wooo, but I'm like 9999999% certain that he's nowhere near Tyrande's level. It's just stupid.
...
Ah to have a real story, how I envy you lol
See, this is why y'all see bias. Because you think running around with the idiot ball somehow constitutes a real story. As a writer, let me assure you: it is not. The writing for the Horde is monumentally dumb, with very few exceptions.
That is not, however, to say the Alliance writing is particularly great. With the exception of Jaina (post-deux ex boat) and Talanji, there's no really interesting writing happening. Being generic "good guys" who never lose the moral high ground no matter what they do isn't any more interesting than being generic "bad guys" who somehow stoop to genocide without a care in the world.
Honestly? I would LOVE to see the Horde lose big. Like, so big they have to slink around in the shadows being hunted. That would be amazing. THAT would be a great story.
That it isn't going to happen isn't because of bias. It's because of the amount of WORK it would take in the game world to make it happen. Any writing that actually changes the world is a monumental amount of work. Even changing the UC and Teldrassil was a huge effort for the art and programming teams. Parts of the world that should CLEARLY look very differently right now, just don't.
The writers aren't great AND they're limited by the amount of change they can actually effect.
The only story I like so far this xpac is Proudmore line, I mean its near a masterpiece compared to most of the stories
10/09/2018 08:41 PMPosted by
Ryzos
We literally had full dedicated zones to Horde allied races.
You also had Val'sharah - an entirely Night Elven zone, dedicated entirely to Elune, Ysera, Cenarius, Malfurion, Tyrande and Xavius.
But go on - "Horde Bias".
Seriously, is there anything Alliance partisans won't go full crybaby over?
[/quote]
Elune...does nothing. Ever. We talk man-to-man with Titans, kill old gods, and rub elbows with Cenarius...but Elune is nowhere to be found. I'm not convinced that she actually exists at this point.
Ysera dies...
Cenarius gets corrupted and becomes a raid boss.
Malfurion gets slapped down, corrupted, kidnapped, and you have to rescue his damsel-in-distress behind from the underrot.
Tyrande really does a whole bunch of nothing. She runs from place to place and you get attacked and do the heavy lifting as you follow her around. But she's there, I guess...
Xavius is really the driving force here.
So, in Legion the Alliance got a NElf zone, while the Horde got an entire
Orc Expansion in WoD.
Sure. Sounds fair. /s
10/10/2018 05:16 PMPosted by
Tabaqui <span class="truncated">...</span>
https://m.imgur.com/ZnBZdoG
Frigging yikes.
OMGG. "Senior Narrative Designer". This explains a lot. Not everything, but A LOT.
No Horde bias, eh?
I wish I could get a refund for all the money I wasted on this game. And for the time, too. :P
10/10/2018 05:16 PMPosted by
Tabaqui ...
Frigging yikes.
OMGG. "Senior Narrative Designer". This explains a lot. Not everything, but A LOT.
I wish I could get a refund for all the money I wasted on this game. And for the time, too.
It really does explain a lot. Legit Alliance are pretty much the disposable NPCs for Sylvannas at this point.
10/10/2018 06:14 PMPosted by
Ollin ...
You also had Val'sharah - an entirely Night Elven zone, dedicated entirely to Elune, Ysera, Cenarius, Malfurion, Tyrande and Xavius.
But go on - "Horde Bias".
Seriously, is there anything Alliance partisans won't go full crybaby over?
Elune...does nothing. Ever. We talk man-to-man with Titans, kill old gods, and rub elbows with Cenarius...but Elune is nowhere to be found. I'm not convinced that she actually exists at this point.
Ysera dies...
Cenarius gets corrupted and becomes a raid boss.
Malfurion gets slapped down, corrupted, kidnapped, and you have to rescue his damsel-in-distress behind from the underrot.
Tyrande really does a whole bunch of nothing. She runs from place to place and you get attacked and do the heavy lifting as you follow her around. But she's there, I guess...
Xavius is really the driving force here.
So, in Legion the Alliance got a NElf zone, while the Horde got an entire
Orc Expansion in WoD.
Sure. Sounds fair. /s[/quote]
And an entire expansion in Cata, and was the moving force for MoP.
But yeah, we had a patch of neutral Draenei and elves one expansion, so there's a lot of alliance bias
Won't anyone think of the dark iron dwarfs!
10/10/2018 05:39 PMPosted by
Tabaqui I'm pretty sure that Delaryn coming back bloodlusty is a big stretch though. She had a long, thoughtful and fairly calm talk with Sylvanas while she was dying.
Let me start off by saying I liked your post, it was very lore-accurate and negated a lot of the arguments about "but so and so cant be undead!"
But this last bit, I would like to refute - as Delaryn was dying, she was basically being ripped apart internally. She had guilt that she failed, despair that her people and home were being decimated, and ultimately she felt betrayed by Elune's inaction.
Her anger toward Elune in her final moments is going to be the big factor in defining whatever she does moving forward. She literally felt forsaken by her goddess. So she is going to sympathize, at least initially, with Sylvanas and maybe see the "logic" in fighting her old allies. With Tyrande now being the avatar of Elune, the goddesse who she felt betrayed and abandoned by in the last moments of her mortal life, she is going to project all of that anger toward Tyrande and the Night Elves that follow her.
10/10/2018 05:39 PMPosted by
Tabaqui I'm pretty sure that Delaryn coming back bloodlusty is a big stretch though. She had a long, thoughtful and fairly calm talk with Sylvanas while she was dying.
Let me start off by saying I liked your post, it was very lore-accurate and negated a lot of the arguments about "but so and so cant be undead!"
But this last bit, I would like to refute - as Delaryn was dying, she was basically being ripped apart internally. She had guilt that she failed, despair that her people and home were being decimated, and ultimately she felt betrayed by Elune's inaction.
Her anger toward Elune in her final moments is going to be the big factor in defining whatever she does moving forward. She literally felt forsaken by her goddess. So she is going to sympathize, at least initially, with Sylvanas and maybe see the "logic" in fighting her old allies. With Tyrande now being the avatar of Elune, the goddesse who she felt betrayed and abandoned by in the last moments of her mortal life, she is going to project all of that anger toward Tyrande and the Night Elves that follow her.
And then she sides with the genocidal undead monster who killed her and her people? All this is beyond absurd.
I said in one of my latest posts that I expected to find no answer to the question: "What's wrong with Horde players?" Now, after looking at the SND, I have the answer, instead. I was needlessly complicating an easy matter. :P