8.1.5.x/8.2 Marksman Discussion

(Yura) #105

those abilities are just boring though tbh. you just press them and they do some aoe damage. then you look at frost mage talents like ebonbolt and glacial spike and they actually interact with their rotation.

(Masoschism) #106

That would make it more fun, but it would also, in its current state, be a tremendous DPS loss over having no talent at all. It’s damage per focus is WAY out of whack for ST. It is useless for ST atm.

(Frista) #107

Agreed. For the CD and how undertuned it is. It should be baseline but we know blizz won’t let that happen.


i agree remove aim shot charges and get rid of rapid fire would fix it tbh without focus regen from rapid fire it should balance out playing surv myself til this trash spec is fixed

(Airese) #109

I have said this since Alpha and I think its worth mentioning it again…and possibly again.

I know this is MM discussion and I am not trying to derail any discussions in here.

Blizzard, for all hunter specs, please go back to one active focus generator (not CD based) like current MM’s steady shot with the rest of the abilities be focus spenders.

Absolute downtime even for a sec or couple of seconds waiting for abilities are boring in my opinion.

(Bertimus) #110

Can you math how much damage it would have to do to a single target to compete with LnL or calling the shots? (same with explosive vs. careful aim) My general thought is to make them do that much damage to a single target, but divide that damage among [x number] of nearby targets if available. Focus cost and cooldown are also variables that could be changed around in that equation to bring them up.


Why do we still not have any 2-target cleave? It can’t be that hard to change the minimum targets multi-shot needs to hit from 3 to 2 and it wouldn’t completely break the class either. It just makes no sense to me that if the fight has 2 enemies close together I can only choose to hit one.

(Masoschism) #112

It wouldn’t even give us “good” two target cleave compared to most specs, considering mobs still have to stand on top of each other. All it would do is give MM “decent” cleave (AKA it would exist).

Break the class? It wouldn’t even make it “good”, it would just make it not completely counter-intuitive.

It doesn’t make sense to a single person on the planet. That alone should have been the biggest red flag to anyone working on this. It is idiotic beyond the asinine that this is in the game.

I just wrote a paper where I talked about negative mass. One of the interesting things about negative mass is, if you push on it (apply a force), it goes the opposite direction of the push.

The lack of ability to hit two targets with our AoE is on the same level of counter-intuitive as negative mass. It should be like negative mass and be only a theoretical “what if”, and not be the reality we have to live with every day.


Honestly, thank you for all the hot takes you give about my fav spec. I just wanted to say I appreciate every last one.


I think that marksmanship multishot should work like beast mastery and make our attacks cleave for a short time instead of what we currently have something like 6-8 seconds.

(Bertimus) #115

Hello, we would still like to be able to play this spec in arena at some point. Can we have some kind of update, or at least some form of communication to let us know either way if we are even in the right ballpark in terms of utility/control complaints?

(Eddyv) #116

At this point I would take anything. Hunters in general are just so bad in this current meta it makes playing one the biggest struggle.

(Bertimus) #117

Agree totally. It’s not fun. You don’t work as well with dk/ww/destro as some of the other t2/3 classes, so lfg is a pain. Playing stuff like php and jungle is also a pain because disc is just so much worse than druid, shaman, Paladin. Going against stuff like dh/dk where they do nothing but salivate on your healer all game and have so much self-sustain that nothing ever reasonably has a chance of dying in your setups before dampening, except your healer is dead and/or oom well before dampening.

I can live with being t2 or worse. What bothers me is feeling like I have to play bm or sv just to actually be t2/3 and not poop tier because common sense stuff isn’t there for mm. It has been way too long now and I’m ready to see something meaningful happen.

(Eddyv) #118

The only thing that looks to keep a few MM on ladder is taking advantage of the LnL + Double Tap. You can double tap then rapid fire and clip the rapid fire with the LnL proc aimed shot which also benefits from DT. So you end up doing 100k+ with rapid fire then top it off with two instant aimed shots. With grits you can get close to globalling someone.


Best way is to be straight forward, direct, and honest.
First is sustained damage.
1.) Make Serpent sting baseline and replace it’s spot in the talent tier with Sidewinders (It’ll make it more visually appealing at early levels).
2.) Make Explosive shot a dot; Optional (going for gold) - make it a dot that goes kaboom (A.O.E) at the last tick.
3.) Bring back Black arrow and make it a dot with a proc chance to summon a little shadow guy pvp talent (not allowed in pve).
4.) Replace Piercing shot with something else.

What does this solve ? One it heals the community on bringing back the ranged survival aspect which was done poorly in the previous expansion and BfA.
Two the ability to be able to do some kind of damage when you’re not able to commit to doing aimed shot.

Second comes utility
1.) Scatter should be base line.
2.) Give us 2 Bursting shot s, or make the cone wider and have it root after the knock back.
3.) Replace born to be wild with Wyvern sting .
4.) Replace Trail Blazer with an updated version Crouching tiger hidden chimera .

There ya go it gives a flavor to Marksman allowing it to be either a mobile sustain dealer or a stationary nuker.

Rise of Azshara PTR Development Notes – April 16
(Airese) #121

Get rid of Precise Shot please. It does more harm than good as explained in many many MM posts.

Replace Precise Shot with a slightly different version of Marked Shot. Every target hit by arcane or multi shot has a chance to activate marked shot on that target(s). Just make sure Marked shot is lower priority than aimed and rapid fire.


I like most of your ideas.
I want serpent sting and serpent spread.

Explosive shot doing some AOE cleave dmg or are spread fire dot

Black arrow, I’d rather have lock in load procs for explosive arrow or aimed shot.

Keep it close to what ranged survival was, anytime blizzard takes some extra license they over do it. Get us back to that good rotation and playstyle, then work on utility and extra flavor


They can bake it in to where trick shot’s can affect serpent sting.


I’ve been saying this since the xpac started but trick shots needs to activate off of 2 targets. It screws us over in fights where you need to cleave 2 targets like first boss of crucible and in mythic + when there are only 2 adds up.

(Bertimus) #125

This is the single most important PvE change imo. Talents can be tuned, other stuff can be adjusted, but the spec won’t feel “good” until our main cleave works on 2 targets. The 3 target minimum creates so many nuanced situations. Nuances can be good, but this nuance doesn’t make sense. It makes sense for a class with very high scaling AoE abilities to have a target cap in order to actually give it good burst cleave but not scale too dramatically on too many targets. Marks is the only spec with both a cap and a minimum of more than 2. It just does not make logical sense. It’s not a “trade off” to require 3 targets to do cleave damage. It’s just a pain.

I also feel like the obligatory “I am nervous at the lack of changes on 8.2 ptr for marksman” comment needs to be made.