8.1.5.x/8.2 Marksman Discussion


(Bertimus) #21

Yeah definitely. From the arena perspective, the spec is at the brink right now bc the damage is actually pretty good after the buffs. It’s still not worth it because the non-damage kit is still so far behind. I feel like if they try to fix it with even more damage at this point it will get gimmicky, and that’s not really how we want to be good. Minor adjustments to the control kit to fill the functionality gap and it is in a very good place imo.


#22

What about something like “if you concussive shot someone who already has the slow it now stuns for 3 secs” this could lead to CS to steady shot to CS/stun to a guaranteed aim shot. Would mean you could actually land aim shots in arena


(Bertimus) #23

A trap setup (something like scatter on disorient) and a root (making binding usable by reshuffling talents or something like old ice trap root via tar trap) is along the lines of what I’m thinking.


(Masoschism) #24

This would be a 3 second stun every 10 seconds. That would not work. There is no reason we can’t have another baseline ability (like a root). God knows my action bar has the space.


(Bertimus) #25

I think a cool idea would be a physical debuff from tar trap giving a root. Maybe where like if you stand in it, you get the debuff that slows you and then roots for 3-5 seconds after the debuff has been on for a second or two. What do you think?

Maybe that + scatter baseline. Or another option would be no baseline scatter or the above, but make binding a baseline thing. Maybe a weird thing since it would still be a talent for bm and sv but would accomplish kind of the same thing.


#26

Yeh would be OP but you could give it an internal CD and dr would help. Could also make it a disorientate rather than a hard stun.

Things is the slow is not nearly enough to peel a warrior. Warrior will just charge and slow you back. If you scatter they will charge after, if you disengage they will charge again and then you have nothing. The way I see this playing out would be to slow and channel the steady shot while they charge and then fire the 2nd concussive. Then you still have scatter and disengage for subsequent charges


(Bertimus) #27

It would be cool to get some Blizzard insight. Are we on the right track? Asking for too much? Do you agree with our general assessments of things?


(Masoschism) #28

I would love to engage in a dialog, but the last thing in the world I want to hear again is:

“Everything is fine.”

or

“We like the way MM is working. Players just haven’t figured out how to play the spec properly.”


(Bertimus) #29

Ythisens posts on the Paladin forums all the time talking shop about ret. Boy what I would give to have a CM that plays hunter.


#30

There you go dreaming again. You need to stop that. Its not healthy. Lol


(Bertimus) #31

Warlock: multi target coil into sfury into fear. And conflag root to help set up.

Mage: db, roots, shimmer, spammable poly.

Spriest: dispel horrify, mind bomb incap, silence, aoe fear.

Scatter and trap being on the same dr is out of place considering the toolkits of the other cc based classes that you would otherwise trade a mm Hunter for. This one change is very important as a first step. It may not be all the class needs, but it’s definitely difficult to look at the toolkit as fundamentally viable without the setup.

The damage kit is more than fine, but the spec is still leagues behind the others in rep, especially at high ratings. This has to mean something to someone at Blizzard. Buffing the existing damage kit to a level that makes it legitimately part of the meta would be obnoxious. Please listen to this.

This is me having played games at 1800+ so far this season and 2.2+ last season as both mm and Sv. I so desperately want to make the spec work but it is so hard to justify losing so many matches that you would win playing something else. It’s the control kit. Please fix it.


#32

Looks like a new PTR build is up with binding shot duration increased to 8 sec and not modified by pvp. I might test it but im going to be hard pressed to give up my root break. Thoughts on this?


(Bertimus) #33

The note I saw said 3 sec pvp


#34

I checked mmo champion it was in red, signifying removal and also checked wowhead and the 3 sec pvp was grayed out, also done when a patlrticular part is removed. Am i misreading it?


(Bertimus) #35

Yeah I see what you’re saying. Idk. The strange thing is that binding was originally 5s and 3s in pvp when it was a stun. The tooltip still read less seconds in pvp when they made it a root but it actually was rooting for 5s. I guess the only way to tell for sure is hop on the ptr and test it. I’ll do that the next chance I get because I’m intrigued now too. It is still really bad having it on the same row as postehaste either way.


(Masoschism) #36

Being able to choose just one OR the other won’t work. This isn’t rocket science.

Lets say the new Binding Shot makes MM viable in group PvP (an 8 second AoE unbreakable root (from damage) might just do that). It wouldn’t fix the class. We need our essential root break + movement speed. All this would do is make one ability so OP that the spec is automatically good.

You can’t fix the spec with just one thing. You have to first realize the whole spec is lacking enough to be a kiting class, even though everything it has is geared towards kiting. It can’t have a whole row of all the best kiting talents competing with each other. We need all those abilities, just like we used to have. You know, back when melee had even less than they do now?


(Bertimus) #37

This is it. If binding stays where it’s at and gets buffed enough where it’s worth using, it really doesn’t improve the situation overall. Basically trading a necessary ability that creates even more opportunities for inescapable death without for a gimmick. You need to be able to use both of them in some way. Either the basic function of one being made baseline or the talents shuffled such that you can pick both.

I’ve been playing mm and sv both in rival so far this season and it’s just frustrating. The damage is there for mm, there’s just so little you can do outside of that damage to be effective. None of your matchups feel better as mm than sv and a lot of them feel significantly worse, sometimes downright impossible. The cause of that is 100% the utility kit.


(Masoschism) #38

There is no room for both as talents. You can’t gut a spec and “regift” all the baseline abilities as competing talents and expect to have a complete class.

The only other tier you could put one or the other in is the tier with Camo. That would make me VERY sad, since I love Camo as a playstyle (even though it currently makes for very awkward gameplay with its CD mechanics) but I wouldn’t be able to take it because both functions of a root and root break are necessary for the class to function as a whole.

All of that aside, a 20-25s CD 4s root would be much better for how the class plays than a 45s CD 8s root, while at the same time being much less OP for most group PvP situations.


(Carvenem) #39

Maybe add a baseline passive to make it so a target inside/affected by tar trap or concussive shot that is then affected by the other is rooted for 4 seconds or so (not broken by dmg)?

Takes some set up, could have an internal CD so can’t keep them in the trap by rooting them again, and would give access to a baseline ST root.

Or make it so if concussives duration (through subsequent steady shots) reaches a certain point then it roots them?


#40

I feel like this would be too similar to monks. While I think the mechanic itself is a good design i dont want to steal from other classes and prefer to have something unique to hunters. Thats jusr imo.

I dont see why they dont just give mm binding shot and put something else defensive in its place. Theres a plethora of things from the past or they could even get creative and make something new. Something that would be strong enough to compete against posthaste.