What do you have against holy priests?!?
1 Like
The design of M+ seasonal rewards incentivizes this behavior. Don’t hate the player, hate the developers.
Hehe they can have a pass :], but they really should have an interrupt even if it only works in PvE. Like how Avenger’s Shield doesn’t interrupt in PvP without a PvP talent with a long CD.
2 Likes
People aren’t leaving keys in mass. It’s not this big issue people keep making it.
Petition that if you die in a key to an avoidable mechanic or don’t use defensives but blame the healer your account gets deleted
2 Likes
Petition to remove M+ from group finder entirely, and replace it with LFD if you have the appropriate key level.
(See, we can all make silly petitions that have no basis in reality.)
2 Likes
Data shows that of the 713,710 US&OCE M+ runs, 167,890 of then were completed over time. Meaning that nearly 25% of the total keys completed this week were overtime and people were willing to stay and finish.
Yes, this doesn’t show how many groups disbanded, but it still goes to show that people are not leaving all keys that see trouble on the first wipe. Going overtime means like 20+ deaths or very low dps.
Compared to DF S3, 13% were completed overtime on week 1.
4 Likes
I was thinking more of how often I see angel form lol
I completely disagree. There are many situations where leaving is valid and fair.
Recently, I joined a +5 Cinderbrew, and the tank was absolutely terrible. He died more than three times in just a few seconds, didn’t use basic defensives (Ignore Pain and Shield Block), and even lost aggro in the middle of pulls. The DPS didn’t interrupt important abilities, died, and barely used defensives to compensate.
Mid-dungeon, the shaman said, “nasty heal.” I just wished them good luck and left. Later, I got several toxic whispers, which I simply ignored.
If the same thing happened today, I’d do the same. I’m not obligated to play with toxic and rude people. Making mistakes is normal, and I’d have no problem explaining things. But if someone doesn’t know what they’re doing, refuses to learn, and still blames others, I’d rather leave.
I also always try to form groups with my own key when my friends aren’t online. I think communication is very important. For example, I always write “read the note” and, below, I explain my goal for that run.
I don’t usually tolerate many wipes when my focus is pushing IO, so in those cases, I make it clear: “if we wipe more than 3 times, you’re free to leave, I won’t report anyone.” This way, my goal is clear, and misunderstandings are avoided.
If you’re only running for loot or Vault, just write in the note: “doing it for loot/Vault, no leavers.”
1 Like
I can count on one hand the amount of keys I abandon in a season (excluding a majority disband agreement), and it’s mostly due to toxic casual egos from people with no self awareness that they are the problem.
People like that get blocked almost immediately.
So if you have a lot of your keys being abandoned, maybe stop with the attitude.
1 Like
I did Heroic Floodgate yesterday morning. Had a massive lagspike and didn’t know what was going on, I would’ve felt way more terrible if that was a key lol.
I tend to be a pretty relaxed person, but I was in a +10 group last night were we wiped on a boss over 15 times trying to kill it. We had been in the dungeon for over an hour and I was out of steam.
The tank and I both said the group wasn’t making any progress (we never got the boss below 55%) and the dps/healer threatened to report us for “being leavers”. The DPS/healer said we should stay even if it takes 4 hours to clear the dungeon.
I’m not doing that… so if suddenly that gives a 7 day debuff, might as well quit M+. I think other people would feel that same way.
We aren’t leaving after 1-2 wipes but if you see no progress, it’s insane to expect people to keep throwing themselves into the grinder for hours on end.
4 Likes
Leaving a key is perfectly fine for the right reasons. Deserter bad idea. End of story.
2 Likes
7 day (week) de buff is a too harsh of a punishment. 2 hour de buff sounds more fair and more motivating not to consistently drop out and break keys.
exactly this- i ran a pug recently with 4 super chill but super skilled dudes who showed me the ropes patiently and slung me a ginvite at the end, id of joined if not otherwise committed, and i had never seen them before or since.
2 Likes
This is objectively wrong, because it is incomplete.
You sign up to a key with the intention and goal of completing the key within the timer. You are not agreeing to finish the key, unless you sign up to a key that has the goal “completion” listed under it.
I never denied that some people leave keys prematurely. I do feel that they are not as much of a problem as the echo chamber that the forums are, make it out to be. It happens and it can be frustrating.
However I have been in keys where the timer is blown before the group makes it to the second boss, and stayed till the end. I also have been in groups that have 20-25 deaths before the group even makes it to the first boss. And I have left.
What has happened much more frequently than all of the above examples is joining a key, where the player making the group looks appropriately geared. But there is a group member in the same guild as the group maker, who is woefully undergeared. They are dyng to everything, and doing no dps. When asking the group, the response is, they are my friend, or they are new, and we are carrying them. I will leave those groups, as I did not sign up to carry someone through a dungeon.
No. They sign up to a key with a reasonable expectation that the group is going to perform with the capability to complete the key in time. If during the run, it appears that there is no way that the group will do so, and it the group is continually dying and making very slow and small progress, it ceases to be a fun experience. So people can make the elective decision to leave.
Again. Blizzard has been pretty clear about how they approach this. They are not going to implement a punishment system where, they can punish one certain behavior in the game, but as a cost of that, other players will get falsely caught in the punishment wrongly.
Attacking people with unfounded accusations? Really mature and adult like.
In World of Warcraft it is. By adding a consequence to leaving a key, you will inevitably get people who are very justified in leaving a key, being punished. Again, Blizzard will not implement a punishment for leaving keys, because it could potentially impact innocent players.
You are the one insulting and attacking people. And its not about the key going “Your Way.” It is about the expectation that the group will be capable of completing the key in a timely fashion, and with players that have a general understanding of what they are doing and how they can work together to reach that goal.
You ok? I dont understand why you are insulting people who respond rather than engaging in discussion discourse.
The reason they have not implemented anything like this, is that it could be used to grief people. It could also negatively impact people who are justified in their actions. Joining a group that has no likelihood of completing the key in time, and more than likely they wont be able to kill one of the bosses. They can hold a person hostage if they dont want to leave the run.
You are the one who is slinging insults at people. Even in response to you, people arent resorting to the name calling or the immature and childish responses.
Blizzard already implemented a fix to the problem people are having. People who show a pattern of leaving keys early can face actions such as suspensions. They just have to do it enough to establish that it is a pattern of behavior. Problem solved. People leaving keys early to grief people can and will be punished.
WHAT?!?!?! FACTS IN THE GD FORUM?!?! Statistical facts? Bless you!
2 Likes
Yeah, I mentioned that one later on. It’s a good place to start for some, because they’re strict with their rules and don’t deal with toxicity.
1 Like
I’ve had times I was really frustrated over someone leaving a key that could been completed, but that’s just how it works. Any punishment would just end up making the game worse and people being held hostage in bad runs.
1 Like
One of my biggest issues with M+ is that the key holder is taking all the risk and consequences if the key fails to time, whether that is due to a poor group or someone leaving, etc. There is virtually no consequences for 4/5 of the people participating.
I like your idea in a M+ CD for leaving an in-progress key, but maybe not a week long CD. Maybe a 24h or 48h CD would be more reasonable.
It’s a fine idea, but this also creates a problem where if a key is failing or the group just cannot finish it due to various reasons, they’re stuck with taking that CD for abandoning a failed key. Perhaps implement a vote to abandon system that requires 3/5 people voting in favor to abandon the key and not receive the CD, but they will receive a CD if they leave the party without a vote.
You absolutely can and you should.
Oh yes they will, and oh yes they have already.
Sounds like a great plan to do this. Doing this should eliminate all these ‘innocent’ people who commit the crime of pugging. Once all these high-quality innocent people remove themselves from play that just leaves the failures. And as someone famous once said, ‘Let them eat fail.’