Nope. Nope I don’t. Also who are you and why do you think I have it backwards “as usual”? And how is anywhere in your post explaining an alternate gear path? You say I have it backwards and then contradict yourself by pointing out that with WF/TF there’s a decent incentive for players to go do older content (for whatever reason such as mounts or helping a friend out) to go and help for the best. That’s not an alternative gearing method that’s literally just the carrot that I said WF/TF is.
Regardless Ion specifically stated when thunderforge was first introduced (which obviously eventually became WF/TF) that they perceived an issue in that raiders were clearing their content, getting BiS, and then not having a strong reason to want to play as much. You’re more than welcome to tell me I’m wrong though, I don’t mind you not knowing your facts.
If there’s any other gearing paths out there it’s really the fact that Mythic+ is in the game now because with the removal of tier sets it really gives a dungeon player the ability to be on pair with a raider in ilevel without the lack of tier. I think they still want raiding gear to be a bit better, but it’s a lot closer than it was in Legion.
Cache reward – 100% drop rate; random slot; random stats/traits; random item TF/socket/Tertiary
Boss Drop – ~25% drop rate without BLP; random loot grab = random slot; random stats/traits; random items TF/socket/Tertiary
Basically, a boss drop is like a cache reward with a 25% chance of actually giving you anything.
So if you have “12 boss chances” you actually have, on average “3 cache drops per week.”
And You can get 3-5 cache drop per week, with average luck.
Anecdotally, more than half my gear is sourced from caches. 10 of 17 slots. 397+ item level is my average. And I replaced 2 pieces with Heroic raid gear this week.
I hate to break it to you, but how you “feel” doesn’t dictate how an encounter is going to be overcome. Mechanics and following along and adapting to the changing environment has ZERO to do with how you “feel” about forged gear.
I think it’s probably more common than it’s supposed to be. My raid group is currently working Heroic BDA and we have multiple people with multiple titanforges over 15 levels. Effectively turning their Heroic gear into Mythic gear.
On one hand it’s nice that we have people getting such great gear, it brings the whole raid’s overall ilevel up… but sometimes it’s a close enough thing that the person doesn’t even want it because the secondaries are wrong, and because it’s so high ilevel they can’t trade it.
That and the fact that it’s just pure RNG. As a whole the raid works to kill bosses so we ALL have a chance at phat loot. But based 100% on complete and utter luck, some people just happen to get phatter loot than others.
That doesn’t feel very good. In my experience, neither for the raid or even the person who gets it. There’s a kind of moment where everyone laughs at the ridiculous twenty point titanforge and then everyone kind of almost sulks about it.
Maybe it’s different when you don’t play a lot with the same people. Maybe if you only do solo play, it feels insanely awesome. But not for us.
Go check out my guildy Blazingtygra via armory/warcraftlogs/whatever. She just got a 20 ilevel Titanforged Incandescent Sliver (yes **Blazing**tygra got a 420 trinket, we all already made the joke, many times). It’s a GODLY trinket. Our raid lead jokingly goes “Looks like you can’t really switch to your Demon Hunter now huh?” and how does she react? She sighed. Don’t get me wrong, some of that was probably the “blaze it” jokes. But it’s not an uncommon reaction to getting insane gear that you can’t actually work for. And he’s kind of right. She has been talking about having more fun on her DH, but now her mage has the best trinket in our whole raid. Not to say one trinket, no matter how good, makes a person’s contribution to a raid, but I think my point stands regardless.
All I see here is people complaining about getting gear that helps out the guild, if they can’t use it because of garbage stats, that isn’t the fault of forging but the bad itemization of this current expansion and the STUPID changes they made to loot.
I’m in a guild pushing mythic raiding and getting a piece that TF’s even over 415 is amazing, thats one less piece I have to worry about, it makes ZERO sense for people to complain about getting gear just b/c its from a lower difficulty.
And in regards to your guildie getting that amazing trinket, if they don’t want to play that char and want to play DH, why don’t they? A person that enjoys playing a specific class will ALWAYS outperform someone who doesn’t enjoy said class.
And you keep acting like that single cache will be a 100% upgrade every time. Meanwhile the people doing harder content have many more chances at much higher item level loot. So, over time, the person doing harder content will have a higher average item level than the person doing world quests and praying that the emissary will be something more useful than 200 resources.
Progression still exists, people are still rewarded for their effort. Some people need to just stop being so negative about getting a little more icing on their cake.
It’s a shame that there are some who are so negative about a bonus on top of getting loot.
You should be happy that you got loot, but instead you’re just bitter about the game.
It really is like complaining that the lottery should be toned down because you feel it’s too rewarding and that it invalidates working for a living.
It all boils down to anecdotal “evidence” that WF/TF is happening too frequently, when there’s no possible way to know what the actual percentage chances are. Even though Blizz said they lowered the chance, along with several slots not being able to WF/TF at all, and a few slots that can only WF. It has been significantly toned down already, but some of you will never be happy about it. You lot should probably take a break, because it feels more like you’re just burnt out about the game and would rather punish others to make you feel a tiny bit better about getting loot. Even though that’s a problem you could solve on your own by changing your mindset to focus more on getting loot to drop instead of worrying about what might happen after getting an item.
If I were selfish and short sighted, that’s exactly what I’d do. I prefer my forum posts be directed toward improving the game, though, rather than toward improving just my own personal character.
Maybe like if the chances of winning were so good that it really did invalidate working for a living. Yes, I’d complain about that, too, since it’s not a sustainable economic model.
It’s not about a little more icing on the cake, it’s a bad progression model. It completely bones the reward system for progressing through new content. Here’s on of my favorite personal examples:
Last week I received a pair of 415 gloves that were a performance downgrade to my M+ 410 titanforged gloves with a socket. I’m not able to use the 415 ilvl gloves because they are a minor downgrade, I can’t trade the gloves because the ilvl is too high, and I don’t want to scrap them because I want to be able to trade gear in future. Any hope of replacing this item and I need to pray for the right drop on the right boss that titanforges. (This has also happened with rings, boots, pants all within this tier - it’s not an isolated event)
This straight up makes doing certain bosses in the raid at my preferred difficulty somewhat pointless. The games reason to do it is loot, but the loot was superseded by another source. The system is flawed on this basis alone, and that’s before considering how impactful different aspects like sockets, leech, avoidance can be while others like speed and indestructible are relatively useless.
“Random Slot” – You don’t know if it’ll be an upgrade or not.
“Random Bonuses” – You don’t know if it’ll be an upgrade or not (if the base item level is too low)
“Random Stats/Traits” – You don’t know if the item itself is awesome or terrible for your spec/class.
This is now the second time I’ve had to spell it out. This isn’t difficult to grasp.
Oh I absolutely agree. But people are vehemently opposed to losing their free upgrades and having them being able to be any level.
I would still prefer a system of “yes, there is potential for it to titanforge up to 420 as long as you are already 415” over “yes, the item can forge to 420, it doesn’t matter if you only just hit 120”
Obviously a cap on base ilvl would be the preferred option, or general removal in my opinion. However I feel the suggestion of compromises is still appreciated.
This is not true.
On my current character: Binkyboy-Elune, 120 Dark Iron Dwarf warrior (which I cannot select on these forums because it seems I have too many characters) has not done a single mythic boss and has killed the first and second boss on heroic once. I have an average item level of 402, which was higher than a mythic raider I did a M+ with the other day.
Also I wish to mention that my character was created on BFA season 2 drop date and was 120 the day before mythic BoD was available.
Not really? I got warforged boots in the second week of the season. I spent the next few months getting repeat boots of varying quality that we’re never better. Same with all my gear. I spent the last month and a half getting a single upgrade (and then month prior to that getting maybe 1-2 upgrades). Every single item I got was either a down grade from a previous war/Titan or it was a war/Titan that RNG of something super bad. Zero sense of progression outside of the first month of play. That is super unrewarding.
I don’t want a bonus, I just want my loot, that’s the reward for my tribulations through content. [quote=“Rankin-shandris, post:466, topic:107433”]
It really is like complaining that the lottery should be toned down because you feel it’s too rewarding and that it invalidates working for a living.
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I feel like the lottery shouldn’t exist. Don’t play in real life and the majority of people that do could really use that money elsewhere. Kinda like smoking.
I don’t really care how often it happens. I don’t want it at all. My gear felt rewarding before and now it doesn’t.
The person was complaining about their own loot? We don’t want to punish anyone. It is unrewarding to us and deminishes the value of all our gear. [quote=“Rankin-shandris, post:466, topic:107433”]
changing your mindset to focus more on getting loot to drop instead of worrying about what might happen after getting an item.
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Lol when you’re competitive this is not how things work. You strive for every edge. I feel like the edge is unobtainable now and all my gear is average. Super demotivating.
Lel people that defend titanforging. Who would’ve thought people that are too lazy or incompetent to do higher level content would be ecstatic to get gear they put no effort into obtaining! Like going to work and the guy next to you who sits there and does nothing gets a bonus while you work for nothing extra.
If this game was free to play, I wouldn’t care but paying 65 bucks to play only to watch the backpedalling hunter that struggles to kill a freaking non elite bear mob get some bonkers piece of gear is just insulting.
![:+1:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/+1.png?v=6" ":+1:")