And yet they’re making MC 20 man. Curious.
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that’s pure retail and kills any sense of immersion in the game 
why would ragnaros get weaker because you only brought 8 people? 
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oh but some how a “leveling raid” that needs 20 will?
oh no they might have EARN gear and play a game what madness
Exactly this. I can’t tell you how many discords I’m part of where people can’t seem to form a ST raid successfully. Almost every Discord ends up pugging at least 5 people to run the raid. Most people playing this game are millenials. Only time we can normally raid is friday or saturday. Adult schedules suck…
40 mans are going to be 80% pugs…
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The sooner people like this accept they cannot be bothered to be apart of a 40 man raid the better. It just looks so funny seeing people vocalize it. “I want the best loot, but I don’t want to put in any effort or have to show up at a specific time to raid”.
Better yet maybe just call it quits now. Wouldn’t want to trouble you finding a couple fills for your next raid.
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why can’t you just invite those pugs into your guild
yes, a guild that does 40 mans is going to need more than 8 people if they don’t want to invite pugs.
I actually have over 500 people in my guild but I still couldn’t get a 10 man formed. People just don’t sign up. The game seems so lazy community-wise.
that isn’t a raiding guild, it’s just a catchall social group guild good for leveling but not end game raiding
edit: well i mean ST could be so boring that not enough people wanna play it. we can’t leave that possibility out.
Stop yelling at me 
I actually think ST is fun. I thought Gnomer was boring.
They need to remove lockout by raid ID. Let players raid by bosses killed. And there is definitely the population issue. I raided on 4 characters in P1 and a lot of ppl did. You just do “who” and see how the population is nosediving. And many have given up leveling alts because so much content is not accessible, due to “wpvp”. The big impact comes when a team still is 7/8 or 6/8. Even the last night before raid reset, it took 3 hours to fill. And players still left. We got through Eranikus, having to pause to find replacements. You really have to clear 8/8 because you can’t seem to get the same core players online again.
20 man is supportable by the current population base.
They’ve been speeding SoD off a cliff every phase. It’s a psyop to get people back on retail.
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I agree with your statement in the sense that I think 40 mans will kill SoD and drive them to Retail.
I have friends who quit SoD to prep for Cata Classic and who are currently playing Retail because they killed 10 man, and if/when they kill 20 mans / push 40 man it will drive the playerbase to Retail.
SoM failed. 40 mans suck. It’s just facts.
This is a massively condensed issue. Almost all of this exists because of bad dev changes. Alt friendliness goes out the door with insane inflation. Removing GDKP made it so RMTers are the ones with all the gold now unless you degen farm. PvP being absolute dogwater and arguably considered the worst PvP in WoW all time by the folks in PvPCord compounds with the Classic player base so the only ones still playing SoD for PvP are the low skill griefers who haven’t touched arena in 15 years. Roster boss can be compounded by all of these things combined attributing to so many people quitting and never looking back.
It’s because we have a bunch of 10 mans who are still trying to own their raid, but pug the rest. They all want to run it their way and don’t want to merge.
Pug players are at a premium now, that’s why it’s hard to get people. Hell, breathing seems to be the only requirement.
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That’s why retail and cata Classic exist though, for 10 man enjoyers.
2/3 of the classic trilogy had 10 man content.
Don’t get it twisted the fault isn’t solely on blizz. While yes there are people that have quit over changes those people are quite frankly wrong because they are upset the version of classic plus they had in their mind didn’t happen. The community here is the issue and more people should be calling others out over the elitist attitude most people have taken towards the game. Earlier in sod it was easy to find people that just wanted to clear the content but week by week casuals were shunned more and more because of no/bad logs. Most people do not have the time to full clear the new raids by week 2 with blue parses and if you didn’t do that then oh well sucks for you might as well just quit so people did. Now that casuals, like myself, have/are quitting people are actually going to be missing their lockouts. Sad part is the community is not going to accept any blame just just be pissy with blizz
Classic is vanilla, the expansions are retail.
They also only had 10 man side raids not main ones. Karazhan was considered babies first raid to gear for Gruul/mag/SSC not an end point therein of itself outside of prince weapons.
