ā¦ This is Vanilla and TBC were talking about, where any sort of stat and such would make enough of an difference to how you perform out in the world, pvp and raids and such.
If we were to translate those two in particular, that would be the covenents. Heck, one of them doesnāt even allow you to switch if i recall correctly.
Classic and TBC were no were near as refined and tightly tuned as retail currently is. You also didnāt have M+.
Those systems arenāt comparable to getting whole new abilities and passives.
Just because Classic/Vanilla/TBC lacks M+, doesnāt mean itās not similar to covenants or not valid to compare. Especially if were just gonna boil Covenants down to āWhich is best for me for this X iām going to be doing to get Y amount of numbers to beat it and be best of?ā.
I donāt play either Classic/Vanilla/TBC (Enough), but i can understand that stats makes a difference, especially in those games where stats do matter.
On my first account I raided and killed all raid bosses from Vanilla > Wrath before taking a break in Cata and coming back in MoP. I tried to get my old account back, but forgot back at the time you could transfer accounts to someone else, yes I have been here that long.
Not once until I came back in MoP did I ever grind for rep items, I never done those grinds for anything in particular other than knowing I done it or the mounts that came with it, I never done the PVP grind for items, but I got to use the old World Defense channel which was fun. But yet, I still was able to do well enough that I was able to keep my spot in a guild that killed every raid boss in the game.
Itās like saying you must have the +60 ring enchant, the +30 just isnāt good enough. Sure, if you are min maxing for world first stuff or are trying to get something to cover your deficiencies.
Shadowlands is an RP expansion, for an RP game.
My point was is WoW does have things like that and covenants arenāt nothing new, itās just being done on a bigger scale this time with mission tables, abilities and such. If nobody has a problem with leveling a few more characters to see the full story of the two factions they have to pick before shadowlands, then covenants wouldnāt be too much of a problem for them.
Again, this goes back to what i said beforeā¦ if 1 person is leveling up 4 people for 4 different covenants, then thatās their choice to do. That doesnāt effect my enjoyment of the content their doing.
Or a testament to how desperate some people are to keep their egos propped up by a video game.
No, it is not not. Building a characterās identity in any RPG, including a MMORPG, is fundamental part of the game.
Learning is good. Mindlessly copying is bad.
Hence why it is so important that the Covenants choice is a defining one instead of a flexible one.
What? Win RPG? You play RPGs, not win them.
From a RPG perspective, it is a stronger character, not bigger numbers.
No, that is how you have chosen to look at it. Your choice but the RP aspect of the game is every bit as core to the game as the multi-player aspect and needs to be respected every bit as much as multi-tplayer aspect.
And personally, I donāt understand why people who have no interest in the RP apsect, play this game. I am not saying āgo awayā, I just donāt get it.
Itās not playing more than one character that is the issue, itās playing four identical characters that is the issue.
And that sounds great.
Except they donāt just do that and then play within the frame of the game; they look at all those options and then want to twist the frame of the game to optimize the possible choices and this often involves negating the RP aspects, diminishing the challenges of open world content, ect which negatively impacts the overall game.
For Blizzard, it is a buzzword, considering the āClass identityā and āFaction prideā we had the last two expansions. I highly doubt itās going to be any different with Shadowlands. I would be silly to think it would be any different from that.
If they want to mindlessly copy, why should anybody or i dictate what they should do?
And do keep in mind, that you can learn from guides, cause learning take on many forms. Such as reading a book or guide on how to do things correctly as one option to learn about stuff.
You also conveniently cut out this part. So iāl post it here for everybody to see and for you to see again. 
New Abilities doesnāt really define me that much. Personally for me, it just feels like a revamp of legion artifacts/HoA.
Iām still failing to see what makes Baridorielor different from Stabzilla cause i choose the Vampire Covenant and Stabzilla choose the Light Covenant. Maybe just for the looks alone, thatās enough.
Iāl cop to that mistake. Win was a weird word here.
I only said that if you want to continue through the RPGās intended journey to save the world and all that, you might have to pass some sort of challenge, that being trying not to die and having enough numbers or correct amount of numbers to beat somebody in an RPG.
And even then, thatās more for the playing side of things in general really. If some group of hired thugs ever come up to you and if your gear isnāt up to snuff to at least take least amount of damage, then youāre gonna have a bad time.
Picked up the sword of firewater, +10 fire damage upon attacking.
Picked up the breastplate of smoke, +10 fire resistance.
Picked up the boots of the jester, +5 attack speed.
Picked a talent for health, +25% health.
Picked a talent for bonus crit damage, +15% crit damage.
Picked a talent for a chance of my attacks becoming fire damage.
Picked a talent to do increased sneak damage, +200% sneak damage multiplier.
Picked a talent that summon bees to sting at enemies, 50 poison damage dealt over 10 seconds.
Drinked a potion of healing healness, 10 health gained over 5 seconds.
Itās not like i donāt RP with my friends and do some RP aspects in RPGsā¦ or any gameā¦ 
We can dance around that and say āoh were picking up a stronger sword and better armor and getting more health to better meet your foesā, but itās still numbers were getting.
Iām still failing to see this as an actual issue to be worried about here.
You are entitled to your opinion but your opinion discounts the facts of RPGs.
You asked the question: āWhy is this such a bad thing for lower skilled players to accept the advice of higher skilled players that is optional?ā
So I told you the issue.
Personally, I think the mindlessly copying is an issue because it completely ignores an important aspect of an RPG which in turn causes people to continue that one-sided mindset.
The abilities are not suppose to define you. Or rather, your character.
Being a part of a new, specific society with a unique position, duties, values, ect in their greater cosmology is. The abilities and cosmetics are perks, not the point.
Why is a dwarf hunter different from human hunter? Or why is dwarf hunter different from a dwarf warrior?
ā¦ also known as, having a strong enough characterā¦
You donāt beat someone in a RPG either. itās a story, not tennis match. Your character might beat another character in PvP in a MMORPG but that is it.
That is type of thinking that is slowly changing this game into an action-adventure.
Again, I donāt get why people who have no interest in the RP aspect play this game. Is there a shortage of MMOs out there?
I am going to stop right here because that eye roll makes it clear you not only donāt get the RP aspect of the game, you have no respect for it, so we are just going to end up going in circles.
I have some undead trolls that need killinā so have a great day and stay safe.
Then what are the facts of RPGās then may i ask?
I asked āwhy i should dictateā as inā¦ But ehh. 
Personally, i think itās their choice to do whatever the heck they want with the game. If they want to figure everything out themselves, then good on them. If they want to read a guide, mindlessly or learn from it, good for them. The only problem i have is enforcing whatever playstyle/choices down in other peopleās throats, and the guide thing, should ideally be optional.
I suppose we can agree to disagree here.
And let me guess, Covenants are just going to give me the duty to use the Mission Table, cause nobody else wants to, and my duties and values are pretty much the same in Legion/BFAās. Iām a champion that still does the grunt work.
I guess to some, they like that. Iām okay with that, but calling me a champion (which i didnāt even do much to earn such title) is a bit much. Especially since i donāt do anything champion like.
Lore, Racials and Appearance. They are unique, but they both can do the same exact thing iām doing if i were a hunter.
RPGās have combat involved. Itās not just a simple stroll where theirs no combat or any sort of challenge involved and you get your story told to you like your Journey or The Stanley Parable.
And iām not talking about PvP side of things.
Itās already is?
I mean, isnāt Adventures typically have Action and Action typically have Adventures, for all intents and purposes? And donāt RPGās have action and adventure in them?
Personally for me, Classic was a more slow-paced action-adventure that focuses more on the adventure part.
ā¦The reason why you think i donāt respect RP aspect of the game is all because of the silly emoji?
Whether you think i donāt or not, i do understand and respect the RP aspect (otherwise i wouldnāt be here or on Skyrim), of making it essentially your second life to live in, especially in a medium like video games, i can see how fun it is to RP a night elf or a tauren, or even pandaren, and act it out in the setting that is given to me. Heck, most of my fun i get from WoW anymore is RPing with friends. Heck, i RP a little on the forums, if you have been following me for a length of time.
You ask me if i want player housing, i would be like āHell yeah!ā
Does that mean iām blind to the what RPGās are for all intents and purposes? If you really think about it, RPGās are just a bunch of Dice Rolls and numbers to keep track off, with story thrown in there along with the aspect of acting like you have a second life.
Not to drive into meme Territory, but somebody might argue that WoW is a second life.
I personally also donāt think this RP aspect is just exclusive with just RPGās, but i digress.
You too Silversarah! 
I mean Silverleigh.
Thanks for the question.
To me, agency is more about having choices.
One of the best ways I feel i have agency over my character is when I pvp. Especially across multiple characters.
Iām on discord with my teammate(s) and our prep time is quite fun. Are they all dps? Is their dps melee? What class composition do they have? Etc.
All of these questions and answers lead to what we all select for our essences, talents, pvp talents, trinkets, corruption, etc.
Being able to think and make all of these choices is part of having agency.
With covenants - it boils down to a one time question and answer: whatās my primary content and spec? look on wow head, or my favorite pro in method/ limit pick what they picked.
From that point on, all of the choices I would have had if swapping was a possibility goes out the window. All of the thinking, planning, diversity, strategizing - diminished because youāre locked in. It dilutes and waters down the game because you set it once and youāre done with it.
Soul binds offer a little diversity - but they operate off of consumables; so now you have to pay for choice in this minor area.
Youāre now stuck in x cookie cutter spec, with choices limited, and that isnāt fun. It doesnāt add choices. It doesnāt make me feel like I have agency over my character.