Do you hear that healers? It’s actually your fault for not working as hard as you possibly can. Spam harder, the tanks need to have more fun, really.
2 Likes
Not disagreeing with the rest of your post, but it’s much more than 10%.
“Read my posts”
<posts 1700 times in 2 months>
“No thanks”
Don’t let the truth interfere with 2H tanking.
You might not disagree with the rest of his post but I will. If your group needs more DPS, your DPS are doing a terrible job. If you can’t keep and hold aggro with a shield, you’re doing a terrible job
2 Likes
I exclusively tank with a sword and board. Since I don’t get to see others tank outside of a raid I’ve never had a chance to see a 2H tank in action at level 60. But there are people claiming they do it and it works. No reason not to believe them.
It seems like a risk versus return problem.
2H tanking = High risk (dying) high reward (faster run?)
Sword and board tanking = Low risk low reward (presumably a slower run)
Now I don’t know if it’s true that 2H tanking leads to faster runs. It could be the case that since the healer spends more mana healing the tank and drinks more it takes longer.
There will not be 2h tanking when they hit a boss that can do crushing blows and 1 shot them. This does not happen in a 5 man.
Someone saw one of the twitchers doing it, now everyone has to. Monkey see, monkey do.
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I’ve healed too many of these idiots, if you want a DPS tank bring a paladin, otherwise put on a shield, the amount of time you have to wait for me to drink isn’t saving you any time overall.
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I completely agree with you!
After timing runs doing the Mage strat (probably badly as most are) I noticed that generally for pubs the consistent, low drinking, Sword+Shield > Mark > CC > continuous runs not only lead to less wipes, but they are actually on average faster. Making the healer drink after literally every minor pull is extremely slow. Im not sure what actual measurement of time people are using to come to their conclusions about things, but I can almost guarantee no one is actually gathering evidence or weighing averages based on the 2 different grouping concepts. I think its an assumed “better” not an “actual better”.
For me im sword and board all the way unless its a big pack of non elites like in Gnomer or im vastly over leveled/geared for the content. Considering my Warrior is 60 and my Healer is 50 I feel pretty confident my theory is correct in most average pub situations where people are far worse than they seem to think.
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My pugs are almost exclusively 2H tanks. They can work and be just fine. But it’s the exception and not the rule. There’s all sorts of people who shouldn’t but do. Poor gear. Low HP. Don’t know how to use their abilities. Borderline level. These are the same ones who can’t be convinced to use a shield. I’ve had some even tell me that they don’t have 1H skilled up as an excuse so they couldn’t possibly.
If you’re higher level than the mobs, if you have nice gear, if you’re good at playing warrior, it can work. But pugging 9/10 times it’s just more work for no payoff.
I don’t know…
I suspect this is what it mostly is
I just checked on my Warrior and it’s an 18% DR in my case (almost entirely blue pre-raid BiS). So maybe 20% at most.
…And if your healers need help by having the tank equip a shield, that healer is doing a terrible job? It fits; it fulfills the role trifecta.
What exactly are you trying to optimize when doing a dungeon? Your group’s DPS? The group’s clear time? The ease at which the group clears the dungeon? Trying to minimize the total healing that the healer needs to do? Maybe trying to minimize the number of wipes?
Yeah generally a lot more damage is taken. Shield alone will absorb on average 7-11% from physical hits from armor and blocking+stats. Being in defensive stance is another 10%, and since many are tanking berserker stance for the AoE thats another +10% damage taken. Many are using rage on AoE instead of Demo Shout which is about another 8-10% and if you add this all up you see these “Leet tanks” taking about 40%+ more damage than standard and the “increased speed” is very much overstated and not actually backed up when you actually time the two concepts side by side.
Its overall really, really bad.
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Nothing? This is weird language for a game.
Especially considering it’s played largely with strangers until you start raiding. How would you even begin to “optimize” with a pug.
I found 2H tanking superior while leveling, after about 40 or so I found the damage taken to not be worth it so I kept using it less and less (sometimes I would pull with 2H for extra threat). 2H tanking dies at max level anyways, if you’re going to damage tank you fury tank. That works for overgeared people/groups, not super advised for the common player.
Two hand tanking is a particular skillset of tanking designed to make threat easier to get at low levels. Even mid levels up to sunken temple do you find 2h tanking viable, with proper play. At no point should someone START 2h tanking without putting on a shield and learning each pull the proper way. It’s only after practice do you take off the shield and manhandle it. A bad tank will not properly pull, initiate, or stance dance.
Tl;dr people who suck at 2h tanking will be worse than attempting to 1h/shield
The consequence I’ve found of this is that people have inflated the required level for instances. Since everyone just facerolls instead of marking, using CC or anything that requires a modicum of thought they all want to be 3 or 4 levels higher than really is necessary
3 Likes
No, it’s not weird language. At all. Ever heard of a BiS? Equipping regen gear for longer fights, or throughput gear for shorter fights? What about equipping resist gear for certain fights? Or extra hit/spell hit gear for raids versus more damage for dungeons? These are all optimizations that you can do by yourself.
You may just do it because you know it’s a good idea, but deep down it’s really an optimization that you were not aware of.
1 Like
What are you talking about? No one is min/maxing pre-raid pugs and endgame no one is 2H tanking.
People should not accept 2 handed tanks unless they really outgear the content. It is not fun, it is simply stupid and it doesn’t help the group because most of the times they lose health quickly and if another group member accidentally pulls aggro it becomes difficult for the healer to keep them both up.
You are not cool when you 2 hand tank. You are a burden.
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The few two-hand tankers I’ve had to heal took massive damage spikes. A hot wouldn’t keep them up without lots of spam heals.
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I’m prot so it never makes sense to lose a shield and Shield Slam. If I need more threat, I just put on some threat/dps pieces.
That said, if the healers are okay with Arms and Fury warriors tanking without a shield, and the MASSIVE armor loss that entails, more power to them.