Ok… so something needs to change with might of the frozen wastes. Currently, its giving 30% obliterate damage increase and always gives KM on crits. The difference between 2h oblit and dw oblit is around 8-10% in dps. With the changes that were shown today, this gap is only going to widen.
Monks dont have this issue between choosing a weapon type to use. But now you’re forcing people into always wanting a 2h over wanting to play dw. There shouldnt be such a disparity in dps when someone wants to use a different weapon.
And the tier set needs a change. You say you dont want them to impact which talents people play, but the frost 2 set bonus give more than both the 2/4 set bonus gives breath of sindragosa. The tier set is a 10% dps increase for obliteration, while its 4% for breath of sindragosa. The 2set is nearly a 7% increase for obliteration by itself…
You’re about to open a can of worms there. Because the weapon choice for a DK is a lot bigger deal than that of a monk. Now I’m not sure about monk scaling but what I’ve heard is that DW is simply better because of an extra enchant slot.
Dk could be a lot worse in terms of disparity between DW and 2h.
This probably means that Obliteration will be ahead of BoS while BoS will remain specialized against Multiple Targets. No longer will BoS be ahead of both ST and Multi-target.
Obliteration got a huge win from this expansion. Moreso than BoS ever will and the tierset for DF is just icing on a cake.
Right now, without the recent buffs(this is gonna widen the spread btw), the order is:
2h obliteration > dw Oblit+breath > dw breath > dw obliteration >> icecap meme builds
The different between 2h obliteration, and dw breath, is around 8%. Now this is the issue. 2h obliteration and dw obliteration take the same talents, minus the ONE point going into motfw. There shouldnt be a big gap when they are essentially the same thing based off a weapon choice. So that is to say, that 1 point in the talent tree is worth 10% dps increase, while most are like 2-3% dps increase per point spent.
yeah this is ST, and every build is going to choose icecap because of how strong it is. Icecap memes is just the builds that dont take Oblit or Breath and just mess around with icecap. Its 8% dps difference in ST, while I believe 2h oblit in 5 target aoe was slightly behind breath but not by much. Here’s this sims, before the recent buffs, which to be honest are going to make the gaps wider. DW oblit isnt on it, but it was mentioned to be below breath on the discord.
Cant link things but here were the sims for dps prior. Of course, with tuning and such but you can see the state of the spec so far.
Festermight Unholy Assault - 39,072
Gargoyle Commander of the Dead - 38,432
2h Oblit - 28,005
breath+oblit - 26,584
breath - 25,829
icecap memes - 23,747
I think Icecap not taking anything that synergize with Pillar of Frost such as Obliteration (mainly), Enduring Strength, Frostwhelp’s Indignation or heck even Frostscythe would make it weak.
This passive by itself is weak but very strong with others as proved from Obliteration.
I just wish we do not have to spend a talent for Champ of the frozen waste. 2hander already seems more limited by the playstyle as it is compared to DW. DW you can go oblit build, BoS with a lot of stuff in between. For Example Shattering Strike is clearly more beneficial for DW so that is out for 2handers.
it was never the best in terms of ST. The only reason breath was good in reality, was because once you add 1 more target, it started to come ahead. My concerns were mostly settled with the buffs frost got across the board. Sims were showing dw/2h oblit at around 30,700, unholy around 31,000, and bos above 29,000. These are in ST.
BUT it all depends on what Blizz wants the dps to be around. If we’re barely making it past their dps goals, then Dps DK is likely going to be benched for raid, since we have no raid utility . Insidious Chill is a joke that Warlocks have baseline and rogues have as well.
Wait, lemme get this straight - after 10 years of DW being either the only option or the only viable option for frost DK, someone is complaining about 2H being a little tiny bit more powerful?
I have some feels about this that Blizz would mod right outta here were I to say them out loud
Thats just bad balance on both ends, making the pendulum swing towards 2h does nothing besides guarantee a DW buff to make them better again, when in all actuality they need to either go all in on 2h or DW and be done with this split weapon BS , also if you actually read the OP its the fact that this one point talent node is such a increase in DPS where as there is a bunch of 2 point nodes that do basically nothing.
8-10%, after DW being 20% or more for the however last forever.
At least be clear and ask for a DW bump and not a 2H nerf, DK frost already sucks (middle b-tier) compared to other melee dps. I’d rather that than picking only one and it being the swishyswishswishsawiishswishswish of crappy DW, I’d delete every DK I have if they pulled that crap again
Literally the weekend before last was the first time I tried 2H frost DK in years, I skipped over SL for, reasons. Prior to SL the gap was much more than “1-2%”, hell you couldn’t viably 2H at all during Legion. For a player that was always 2H frost DK, that really sucked.
A month ago when I leveled up my DW FDK every site I read (granted, months-old data at this point) still claimed DW as the best option. Leveling up I’d give a slight nudge to DW being more powerful than 2H (because aoe), but 2H was definitely more enjoyable.
End-game, I can see 2H pulling ahead a little bit, particularly against bosses. In aoe it’s pretty comparable, but overall still mid-b-tier at best melee dps, which is sad for a Hero class imo
