All through beta it just felt wrong. It threw out the rythm of combat. It made combat a focus of watching for the seal to fall off instead of looking at other stuff. To the point I had to install an addon that puts a bar on my screen showing how much longer is left on the seal because for some reason the cooldown manager does not include seals.
I don’t care if it’s more efficient mana wise. Bake the mana cost reduction in somewhere else.
The fundamental gameplay of the class just doesn’t feel the same. It’s lost that rhythm that just felt right when you were playing a paladin. Re-sealing after Judgement was never busywork, it was a fundamental defining feel to the base rotation of the class. This completely violates the “Approachable and Familiar” pillar. There were plenty of things that the class needed or things people asked for. This was not one of them.
Please reconsider this design choice.
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I haven’t played pally yet, didn’t know this was a thing. I agree, that really feels un-pally like.
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Yeah they mentioned it right back in the Forever announcement and it was also in the big 30min Forever release video. All in all they seem very proud of the change but I just can’t fathom how if someone actually has been playing Paladin for years they’d feel like this was a good thing. It’s a totally jarring change.
I went and googled if it’s in retail and yeah it’s a change straight out of retail and it feels like it.
You’ve been playing a paladin stuck in 2004 for years*
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Genuinely, stay in era.
Judge consuming the seal was and is the worst class design, maybe in the games history.
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It’s called Classic or Era. That was how paladins felt. The announcement of Forever stressed ‘Approachable and Familiar’. There is nothing more familiar about paladins than the ‘seal’ → ‘judge’ → ‘re-seal’ since we’ve been doing it for years.
Sounds like you suck if you need an addon within the first 10 levels of a game that has been out for 2 decades and recently got a slight update.
I find no issue with not needing to re-apply my seal every time I use judge. Archaic design != meaningful design.
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It gets better when you have more than one seal.
Seal of crusader
Judge
Seal of righteous
Judge
I prefer for judgment to NOT consume the seal.
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I played it to L30 on beta. When you typically want to judge a seal and then switch like when you’re tanking and you judge crusader and then switch to fury it just feels wrong. You’re overwriting whereas there was a certain satisfaction and efficiency to re-sealing to a new seal.
But hey, retail players have had this for years. It’s clearly what they want and that’s what we’re catering to.
It took me a hot minute to get used to it too, even though I played well past when we needed to re-up seals with every Judgement. When I first start playing the Beta, I didn’t even realize the Seal stayed after I Judged. Muscle memory I guess. I like the change now however. The thing I can’t get used to and absolutely despise is them making Judgement our taunt. It’s such a cumbersome, and inferior way to give us a taunt. To the point that they had to give us a second one just to try and bandage the janky, clumsy design they came up with. Just give us a normal taunt. Judgement is core to playing a Paladin that holding it feels bad, isn’t fun and runs counter to how Judgement was designed to be used, and using it on CD run counter to how any Taunt ability was designed to be used. They just don’t make sense, and are just bad when put together.
I can get used to it but it actually ruins the class for me on a fundamental level. I played Paladin for a number of reasons and the whole ‘look and feel’ of the abilities was one of them. Along with other changes like removing salvation and baseline seal twisting, the feel just seems gutted.
Wierdly the taunt on judgement fits with the class fantasy. I’m ok with that. Don’t love it or hate it.
I genuinely don’t see how. The Devs call it the Seal and Judgement system. Without using Judgement as a core ability in rotation it’s just the Seal system, which isn’t really much more than using one of those elixirs that lasts 30 seconds.
Early I’m WotLK Seals initially lasted 2 minutes and weren’t consumed by Judgment. It was a pretty big change, then later it was moved to them lasting 30 minutes. If the seal isn’t going to be consumed by Judgment then I think 2 minutes is about right. Not so long that it becomes meaningless and not long enough that you don’t have to be aware of it’s remaining time at all times.
You saying the seal change fundamentally ruining the class for you. Is how many people, myself included, feel about taunt of Judgement. It’s just unnecessary, there are so many better ways to add a taunt to the Paladin. Many way that have already been tried and tested. Pick any of the taunts we’ve had since TBC, nerfed or ported directly, and were happy
So for me it just feels like too many changes and they didn’t buy us anything. The class doesn’t feel overall better in any way, just different and unfamiliar. One of these things and I could have dealt with it, but the massive amount of changes and the way they were implemented makes the class feel off. I just don’t enjoy playing it anymore. Which is sad. I love the class fantasy. I love the utility. I love the role in the group. But it doesn’t feel like playing a paladin anymore at a fundamental level.
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I agree it’s kind of janky - i much prefer the seal system used in WOTLK. I hope i can make a macro that automatically refreshes the seal when inactive and casts Judgement all with one button. Managing seperate buttons for each seal every 30 seconds is super janky. I understand and appreciate this version of the game is supposed to have some friction and quirkiness to it, but we are still being saddled with Seal busywork despite them claiming to have removed it.
As a Vanilla paladin, I weeped joy when Wrath got rid of judgement consuming the seal. This is a good change.
5 Likes
It’s something that I am still getting used to after years of playing paladin off all types and versions.
I like it but I do get a similar feeling as the OP does. I kind of liked the janky, apply, judge, apply, repeat system in a nostalgic way.
IMO this is still better than perma seals.
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Absolutely not. It’s far better this way. Recasting seals was dumb, sorry.
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I for one love the current seal system in Forever. I’ve always despised having judgement consume seals. It was an unnecessary annoyance that ate through mana and felt clunky. This new system (taken from other ex pacs) is much better.
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Yeah, I catch myself re-sealing. Is it enough of a problem that I need to make a forum post about it? I think you’ll get used to it, I know I am.
Now let’s talk about the most un-pally thing in forever… BLESSINGS SHOULD ONLY LAST FOR 5 MINUTES! I am now so bored, what do I do with the extra 55 minutes in forever?
Uh, no. It didn’t.
That… is extremely embarrassing for you to admit.
It does. You judge seal of the crusader, you switch to Seal of the Righteous. You judge. The only thing this changes is it removed seal twisting (thank god)
It was. Unless you made a macro for it. Which you still can literally do, so you can apply Seal of the Crusader via Judgement and immediately re-seal to Seal of the Righteous.
No, this is you being stubborn and attempting (poorly) to ask for seal twisting to return.
No, the design is superior.
3 Likes