How WoW Forever and Blizzard Devs made Raiders and Casuals hate each other for no reason

WoW: Forever World of Warcraft: Forever General Discussion
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I have played Warcraft off and on since 2004 and I’ve never had a problem with casuals or really any group of people in the game.

That changed with WoW Forever and the dungeon XP nerf.

Blizzard took the community and divided it, and then ignored it while players turned on each other.

That by itself is pretty ugly, but the way many casual players have responded is far uglier.

Instead of supporting how other people play the game, or staying out of a conversation that they didnt have a stake in, they have swarmed threads insisting that all players play how they do.

I have yet to see a single one of these people explain how people playing differently actually directly effects them - they universally simply dont want anyone else do be able to play a different way.

The only reason they have put forth is that it will cause them to level too quickly, but there are dozens of methods within their control and without your intervention that they can slow leveling down if they want or need to.

But you have left raiders and dungeon players out to dry, and you have caused a toxic rift in your community that has torn players apart instead of making them excited to be in the world together.

I dont know what to say but shame on you, and probably restore dungeon XP before this goes live and the problem is 100x worse.

You’re screwing your whole game, all versions, FOREVER by reinforcing these attitudes between players.

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Anti-Dungeon Leveling/Dungeon Enjoyers People - Why?
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Why would I be excited to be in the world together when I’ll never even see the dungeon crawlers? This community is always divided. You new here?

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if you cant explain how it actually effects you, save your breath.

you’re in mega realmless.

lets take your bad faith argument that dungeon players arent actually in world at face value, which is total BS. There are thousands of layers with other players to fill your world.

you lost nothing for having those players in dungeons.

try again.

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What happened to the raiders?

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now that they nerfed quest XP even more, people are really gonna be in for a rude awakening when they hit the higher levels. i kinda get it for the first few dungeons but everything after that is going to be pretty painful when everyone is competing for the same few mobs for quests in the higher level zones to squeeze out those last 10 levels.

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Agreed.

Even on my first playthrough the dungeons were an oasis of fun game play that you longed for.

Every time levelling since I cannot wait to make it to SM and ZF.

There were some really bad slogs for 30-35 and 45-55 and the oasis have dried up.

I hope that the people who demand that this stay this way enjoy it, but at least be aware that your selfishness is making the game less fun for others. :person_shrugging:

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I’m addressing this. I have ‘think of the children’ fatigue. I can’t be excited to be in a world with the players who would spend 90% of their time in dungeons because I will never interact with them. You can’t XP farm dungeons, boo hoo.

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you are the bad people Im talking about.

what on earth inside you makes you need to control someone elses play?

like I said, you’re in mega realmless. If you want to see people in world, THEY WILL BE THERE. not that this argument is remotely valid anyway.

In fact, if you guild with fellow disgusting hyper casuals you will likely stay on a layer with disgusting people like yourself.

so try again. how does this effect YOU?

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Your parents never told you no, have they?

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You’re also unlikely to see or interact with the majority of people in the open world too given how sharding works. Does that mean you’re excited to be in a world full of players on other shards you won’t ever see too?

Why does it matter to you what other people are doing for fun? I’m genuinely curious what motivates this kind of mindset.

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why are you trying to be everyone’s parent? what is actual wrong with you?

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bro, Blizz has been manufacturing this for YEARS in retail.
Glad to see you wised up long ago enough to not play it.

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I havent seen any raider/casual hate.. mostly just classic/retail hate going on.

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Is this just being salty about the dungeon exp nerfs?

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Another day, another dungeon xp complaint thread lol

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Complains about Blizzard dividing players, then proceeds to place blame, further dividing players. Completely unproductive…

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No - that’s the straw man everyone around here uses to try to pigeon hole someone and dismiss their ideas.

The people saying GOTO X are mostly hyper casuals who are trying to defend their hyper casual experience and telling people to go to retail.

Did you not read the post, or did you not understand it?

I am fully anti-casual now bro. not hiding it.

You know whats really telling? Still not a single answer from the casuals about how it actually effects them. Not one.

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Did Classic or Vanilla have speed leveling via Dungeons? I know Vanilla didn’t and Retail does. What is the Forever model based on, Classic or Retail?

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I am ok with the dungeon changes. Blizzard doesn’t want people sitting in dungeons 15-60, but you still can. It’s just less optimal. It will hurt PvP realms more if dungeon farming is even close to questing.

I don’t plan on playing a PvP ruleset, so that doesn’t affect me much, but I personally think questing, and then doing the dungeons 1-2 times for quests/loot, is a perfectly fine gameplay loop and gets me more excited for the dungeon than if I were spamming them. I did dungeon spam in Anniversary TBC; I don’t want to do it here.

If it is the optimal way of leveling a character, then I don’t want to be pressures into doing it to keep up.

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OK, thanks.

I’m pretty sure this is the crux of it for most people.

So I have two questions for you :

  1. Why do you need to keep up? All of the casuals are saying they want to enjoy the journey - so what does it matter how or when someone else journeys? Everyone has to go slow because you didnt want to go fast this time? wow… you can play that back for yourself and see how selfish that sounds, right?

  2. So make it comparable XP? is that a problem? because right now it really isnt comparable. every guide tells you to get out of dungeons after quest XP, and if the dungeon is too far out of your leveling path JUST SKIP IT.

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