Either mana needs to last longer or the psychology of players needs to change

In Development WoW: Forever Beta Discussion
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Okay, so last night I ran Razorfen Kraul on my hunter. The party (initially) was a warrior tank, two priests (one heal, one shadow) and an enh shaman, plus my hunter.

We would pull a pack or two and everyone would be more or less out of mana, and the tank would just keep going.

I was also 80% just autoattacking to try to make the mana last longer but a couple of summon hawks or a wing clip on a runner later and I was invariably oom. The priests had it worse.

Nevermind that just standing there autoshooting isn’t exactly the most engaging gameplay in the world, I keep thinking back to original MC days where raid leaders would trash talk hunters that “just autoshot”.

But anyway.

Tank pulls a huge group. Like 8 mobs at once. We finish them off and everyone is out of mana. (It does NOT help that the mobs in here have a cheap mana burn that nukes 50-80% of our mana instantly).

Healer’s at maybe 18% mana. Me, the shadow priest, and the enhance sham are all dead oom. We’re so out of mana our alts are drinking.

What’s the tank do? Charges at the boss.

We scrape through the boss fight, and I make a comment. “Gee, I sure love going into a boss fight with zero mana.”

Tank says “zooming” and proceeds to rush off to the next set of mobs while everyone is STILL oom.

I made a comment that there’s no need to rush, let us get some mana. Tank responds with “you can drink while we’re fighting.” To which, I say “If i wanted to watch other people play video games I’d be on youtube, not logged into WoW.”

Tank replies “why so salty?”

I said “I’m not salty. I’m just fatigued with all the M+ timer chasers insisting on rushing in a game that is not designed to be rushed.”

At that, the tank has a hissy fit, and leaves the group.

Fortunately, we were able to find another tank (pally) fairly fast and did the instance okay with him.

But… this is not the first time the party has been split between people who think there’s an M+ timer to be beaten and people who use mana who are out of it constantly. There is a disconnect between a game concepted in 2004 and players who have spent years and years conditioned by M+ timers to care only about speed.

I feel that something has to give somewhere. Either the mana needs to last a little longer (why do we oom if we hit 3 buttons in a fight rather than just autoattack) or we just have to wait for all the timer-crazed parse junkies to flame out and stop playing.

“Just drink while we fight” is such a selfish attitude imo. Like, okay YOU get to have fun while the rest of us are just sitting there.

Honestly not sure how to fix this. Maybe letting mana last longer is giving in to the rush crowd. Idk. I do know going oom every pull isn’t fun. Doing a pull of like 5 mobs and ending up totally oom, then drinking, then starting the next pull only to be /immediately/ mana burned and fully OOM again within 5 seconds of combat starting is almost a ‘screw this, i’m out’ moment.

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So what I am hearing is that the tank was moving at a brisk speed, no one died, and you started complaining because you wanted to artificially slow the whole group down. Got it.

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You were both wrong for different reasons.

The tank was wrong in that he should have waited for healer mana, because that is the one mana bar he should care about.

You were wrong because he told you the fix. Sit down, drink, rejoin when full on mana again. Tank gets more time to build aggro lead and if he isn’t dying, and the healer has mana, it’s no issue for you to stop and drink.

But no, mana is going to matter for the future, and should. For too long lack of any discernible resource management is what forced us into the horrendous raiding meta we have now in retail, where since mana doesn’t matter every mechanic now has to be a one-shot or better, has to wipe the entire raid if one person fails.

Mana management enables content that can test endurance of a group, be they dungeon group or raid.

If it bugs you that much, start your own group, select “relaxed” from the drop down, and mention to the tank at the start what pace you would like to keep.

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We did select “relaxed”.

If tanks only care about healer mana and the dps can go … themselves about mana, that is not “building a sense of community.”

THERE IS ZERO NEED TO RUSH. There is no timer. There is no super secret special bonus loot at the end of an instance if we beat a clear time. There is no reason to tell the dps to sit there because the tank can’t be bothered to wait 20 seconds.

Why can’t tanks wait for the entire group to be ready for the next pull? We’re all here to participate. Not just sit there while the tank and healer do everything.

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Kinda on the fence here, but what harm is it doing for you to allow the tank 20 seconds of special time with the mobs before you kill them. Tank should wait on healer mana, because that is going to matter, but dps can drink while the tank beats on the mobs just as readily as if the tank is standing there doing nothing.

otoh, I play a pali tank, and like the occassional excuse to top up the mana bar, usually when I see the healer drink, I drink. works fine.

If there’s no rush, as you claim, you should be in no rush to kill the mobs that the tank is conveniently gathering up for you.

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90% of this will change late game. The 30 experience isn’t really great for this. You’re not wrong there is retail based players that are going to learn some hard lessons.

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I’m not in a rush to kill the mobs. What annoys me is that the tanks are. And they think that only they matter. They’re in the game, playing it, doing things… and the dps can just sit there watching. That’s not fun.

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Only mana bar that matters is the healers. If your blowing mana on multi shot on cd thats a you thing. You can drink between pulls its really okay

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Did you miss the part where I said I was 80% autoshotting to save mana and STILL going oom? I wasn’t using multi shot because it’s too much of a mana hog.

And no, it’s not okay that DPS sits there and watches while the tank goes on. There is NO need to rush. There is no reason the tank can’t wait for EVERYONE to be ready. “The dps can drink while the fight happens” is just a BS excuse to rush when rushing is not required.

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I would ask if any of you guys had taken the ‘allows %mana regen while casting’ talents.

If the Tank is rushing between groups, you can also just slow down dps so the mobs take longer to kill and you can keep your mana above 50% for emergencies. In RFK as a lvl30 hunter I would generally just hit every target with 1 serpent sting and then just keep my hawks rolling while auto shotting stuff. It slowed down the pulls a bit, but it kept my mana above 50% or so. That way if things went sideways I could have mana to drop a trap, CC something, heal my pet, ext…

Learning to manage your mana is a big part of playing any form of classic wow, but Forever is definitely the easiest I’ve seen because it allows mana to regen per tick instead of once every 5 seconds. So you don’t have to wait 5 seconds for 2 or 3 mana you need to get an ability off. If you’re having problems I would suggest checking your talents and adjusting your playstyle. You don’t need to always be going full blast on every target.

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That is exactly what i WAS doing.

It also wasn’t only me that was oom. ALL the dps AND the healer were oom consistently. And if the pulls were large (5 or more) i wasn’t even serping all of them

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Ensuring everyone enjoys “the journey” :rofl:

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In that case I’d ask what level you all were and what your gear was like because RFK isn’t that hard. If the tank was the only one wearing serious gear then him rushing and everyone else being oom makes sense. The tank is gonna feel invincible while everyone else is struggling.

Having a tank that’s not paying attention to the group is troublesome, but there are ways to deal with it. It sounds like you guys were pushing really hard to keep up with him when you probably should have just done as he said and start drinking every time combat dropped before following him in to the next fight. If he pulls a group and the healer’s oom and you all die that’s on him.

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So what i’m hearing is you are one of those M+ timer chasers that only cares about their own experience and wants to rush in a game not meant to be rushed.

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The forums aren’t a dairy

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I’m not coming here to buy milk and eggs. I wouldn’t expect it to be a dairy.

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You don’t build a community with a PUG dungeon group. You build it with a guild.

Seriously who lied to you guys and told you that you will form these deep lifelong bonds with every PUG you do a dungeon with one time?

To you maybe. Maybe a player has limited time and is trying to finish a dungeon quicker so they can get a few more quests done before they have to log off. Maybe they don’t get a ton of time to play and would prefer to clear five man content quickly since it’s not particularly engaging, especially at lower levels.

You’re strictly focused on YOUR experience, why is that the only one being catered to?

Who said you weren’t participating? You finish a pack, stop and drink, it takes 5-8 seconds or so, get up, rejoin group and start dpsing again.

But no if you’re asking if a tank is gonna stop and readycheck every pull you’re dreaming.

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1st Rude
2nd The Forums are a place to have a discussion with fellow players. If you don’t want to be constructive then at least you can be silent.

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welcome to ignore, troll

A slower pace is the entire stated purpose of this game. Enjoy the journey. There are no timers here. Take your rush nonsense and go back to retail.

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Drink when combat drops /thread

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