All these bugs and devs are wasting time on this crap? Shows that Forever is basically gonna be for streamers, theyve already gutted classes and junk to balance them at 30, gutted quest drops to balance them at 30… They are really gonna ruin this whole version of the game for a streamer tournament.
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What are you referring to? Is there a post about it somewhere? Or was it in one of their podcasts or something? Maybe a specific arena for tournaments would be kinda cool. Different formats and such
All they did was give them an unused area to hold the Tourney.
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It was in their recent podcast. They have a finale area for tomorrow that they made special for an area to do duals in, not just for this tournament but for any time after release as well. The rest of the areas they are using today are literally just flat zones unused as of right now, with practically no texture. I highly doubt any of this took much time. I will say, streamers have too much pull on decisions being made and it does feel that classes were balanced for level 30 just for this which is slightly annoying. But only time will tell if that is actually the case or if it just seems to be an extreme coincidence during beta.
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Bugs galore with phasing and constant nerfs to classic for lvl 30 balance because of this tournament, nerfs to items because of this tournament, nerfs to quests. So no they didnt just give them a unused area. It proves this whole time these stupid decisions they have been making are because of streamers and this tournament.
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Tweaking the coefficient on Sinister Strike or whatever doesn’t do anything for publicity and catching the attention of prospective new players. Things involving highly visible streamers do (in theory, anyway). It’s as simple as that.
My take is the streamers inadvertently let Blizz find a lot of Bugs and Exploits that would have gone live without this tourney.
It’s better to have Class balance and to have that other stuff changed during Beta then during Live play. It also put a giant spotlight on what Blizz will do to Gold buyers which scares your average player away from doing that crap.
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Not bugs, normal stuff where streamers were mad a twink in pvp at 30 got power from it. Like getting stuff from a high lvl quest because it had no quest requirement has always been a thing. Nerfing spells and junk because they are strong at low lvl to the point they are useless at low lvl (penance) Why? Oh because having the talents makes the lvl 35 skill lvl 30 now and that would make the tournament unbalanced… So its VERY clear that blizzard intents to prioritize any streamer opion or expeirence over their playerbase.
Adding back an exclusive spell solely for frostmage so they could pvp at 30 even tho every other class has downranking nerfed? Hmm I remember a certain streamer complaining about that.
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Personally this doesn’t feel like it’s purely a negative, if the ceiling for power in sub-60 BG brackets can be capped somewhat that sounds great to me. Twinks that are moderately more powerful and not absolute gods makes for more fun BGs for everybody who’s not playing a twink.
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Meh. I think it’s fine. There was a lot of cheesy crap going on like exploiting the Legacy prof talent.
I’m OK with stuff that’s been a grey area for 20 years finally getting addressed. That’s what Forever should be doing.
We’re not going to be stuck at 30 when the game goes live any way so who cares?
Most people care? Makign the leveling experience a slog for everyone 1-30 just for a streamer tournament from beta is kind of stupid
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Having worked with many software engineers i tend to believe the devs that the person balancing classes doesn’t give two shs about this lvl 30 tournament. As it should be.
Would be better if less (or no) money was on the line imo, but whatever.
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Is that why they nerfed specifically tiers of skills that are lvl 30 and below?
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streamer donations are just laundering their blood money
game masters probably involved in the outcome too like that recent m+ scandal lol
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but on the other side if this is supposed to be the state of classes for the entire run of forever that’s… Really concerning
one of the things they specifically called out at blizzcon was not having to come back 2 years later to relearn your class; so major changes or reworks seem off the table
and I honestly cant imagine these classes holding enough peoples interest for 2 or 3 or 4 years, its not just the low apm (though thats a big complaint I personally have) its the lack of failure points or meaningful choices in moment to moment gameplay
when theres no chance to fail theres no chance to learn or improve either
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Don’t worry, Xaryu has a few more oh-fakes for yet another “react” video.
I agree that’s what’s happening, I just think it’s an awful move. Balancing around skilled level 30 twinks has made casual play feel significantly worse than Classic. It won’t do much good to attract new players if the game doesn’t get fun until level 40.
A lot can be improved by “just” massaging numbers.
I could be wrong but I don’t think players whose primary interest in the game is derived from class mechanics are the target audience for Forever. They almost can’t be. One of the goals for Forever is to design classes in a way that’s accessible to newbies and forgiving for them to play, which is more or less incompatible with retail-like class complexity.
class mechanics are the fundamental window through which players interact with everything else in the game; it impacts literally everyone who plays just to various extents, it’s also core to how much depth the game can have.
and I’m not asking for retail level complexity there is an entire gulf from “you have 1-2 buttons and twice as many empty globals as full globals” to “tww style 15 buffs and 4 cds that need to be aligned with 75+ apm”
there’s decades worth of class design in-between where forever is currently and where retail peaked in TWW.
the simplicity also creates issues of creating new specs/classes; we’re already at the point where the devs called shadow priest “discount affi warlock” so whats it gonna look like in 3-4 years when forever is adding the 6th or 7th or 8th spec to the game? if specs are already pressing up against each other in terms of identity?
if warriors had more buttons and a more fleshed out game play loop they could have an identity besides “top dps on 2 target cleave”
if rogues had their energy economy changes to promote a more active play style they could have an identity outside of “top single target dps”
if affi warlocks had more than just “dot damage” both affi and shadow priest could get more clear identities without one being forced to be the worse version of the other
also you can only massage numbers so much; and its much harder when you have abilities shared between specs with very few spec specific tuning knobs because most specs can share up to half their talent tree. but with most specs also only gaining one ability from their specialization it risks nerfing their iconic abilities into the ground undermining the specs individual identity
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For sure there’s a lot of in-between as well as some room to add some depth. Picking a point on the line to target is tricky though because complexity started ramping really rather quickly (many WotLK specs are totally different creatures compared to their former selves) and exploded in the following expansions.
Regardless, I think the level of depth that someone looking for class depth wants vs. what a more general player wants differs a fair bit.