From what I’ve heard there are no plans for flexible raid sizes in Forever - not sure if that means hard capped 10/20 instance limits or simply that we don’t have dynamic raid sizes like retail.
I really hope to see a little bit of flex in raid sizes. Anyone who’s been part of a social raiding guild (or led one) knows the frustration of trying to get 20 people together and ending up having to bench someone because 21 people showed up. It sucks because you want to target having a little extra in the roster so raid night doesn’t fall apart if a few people have plans, but having the capacity be hard capped feels a bit limiting.
IMO Season of Discovery was perfect for this, the raid would be tuned for 20 people but you could bring more than 20 if you want. There is no dynamic scaling, there is no additional loot (so technically you are getting less loot per person if you bring extra people) but it let you maintain a social raiding guild without people having to sit on the sidelines.
Please give us a bit of flexibility in raid sizes in Forever. Even if it’s not the SOD level (you could bring double the raid size), even just being able to bring 12 people into a 10-person raid or 25 people into a 20 person raid would really allow more flexibility in raid roster sizes.
Please don’t because it incentivizes class stacking, to bring extra buffs and the speed running community will absolutely abuse it and make it filter down into the meta to make the game worse. Make content for the content let the social issues be solved socially.
Daddy blizzard doesn’t need to solve every social problem for you. You can also run with 19 and likely be fine as well. People in vanilla used to do MC in 20 man splits for bindings and everything assumes everyone was worse back then.
Easy to say on the surface until the way these social issues get solved is people quitting the game because the guild can’t consistently play together.
Yeah I guess speedrunning raid compositions is definitely of more importance than the social element of the game (you know, the thing they said is the most important part of the game), “daddy blizzard” should let the social issues created by their game systems work themselves out and instead spend their energy designing around the speedrunners
I mean also speed running was only really a classic problem because of solved content and re-runs from pservers, but the raid format has never been issue being static. yes people will quit if they cant get raid slots sometimes but if they are that inconsistent is it really worth it to the other 19 people in the raid to give them gear? Or does it just hurt them more.
They already gave us 10 and 20mans as the primary raid format so we didn’t have to deal with 40 mans. Which had no flex either. Design has catered enough to the social aspects where 10 and 20’s are easier to maintain. They don’t need to keep catering to it at some point design can’t fix every player problem and it is a player problem if they are so inconsistent that your regularly replacing someone every night. If your friends can’t make your raid time consistently and the rest of you can’t change them… well it wasn’t meant to be.
absolutely its worth it, we are talking about social guilds where the community aspect & playing the game together is more important than muh optimal loot distribution
Super reductive take. Slippery slope fallacy with no actual argument. “At some point design can’t fix every player problem” but they can fix this one, so what is your point?
“If your friends can’t make your raid time consistently”, yeah totally - if people have social lives, families etc. and can’t make raid time 100% of the time they should just quit or find a new guild rather than the game being just a little bit accommodating to the realities of real life to avoid benching players
What I’m saying is if your friend joins a bowling league but misses 50% of the bowling league tournaments maybe that wasn’t important enough to them to bother with because they are wasting 3 other peoples time. Now expand that to raids and it becomes ok they can’t actually commit to this or simply don’t want to enough but w/e it’s fine lets punish 19 other people that want to do this, and if they throw a fit about being benched sometimes maybe just maybe they aren’t really your friend.
Which might make sense if this was a league or remotely competitive activity lol. This isn’t a league.
Lol this isn’t a job dude. It’s not a personal slight / injustice against raiders if someone has real life obligations - this is a game. And of course nobody wants to be forced to sit out of a social activity.
You have yet to actually engage with the concept of adjusting the raid size at all and just seem to keep bringing it back to this weird conflict position where it’s people who can’t attend 100% of the time versus everybody else. You’re missing the point entirely - and this doesn’t even take into account other situations, like what if a guild member’s friend joins? Someone returns after taking a break for a few months? The strict limit on instance capacity prevents playing with more players in situations where it’s not enough new players to justify adding a second raid team or something.
Changing the instance capacity limit without adding flex difficulties, scaling loot amounts etc. essentially creates no gameplay changes but dramatically improves the ability to maintain guilds/raid teams in guilds that actually care more about the community than about the loot or parsing. Being snotty about the motives / values of people who don’t like being forced to be on the sidelines (hint: almost everybody) just comes off as trolling, frankly.
The longer the game’s been out, the more the fact that they didn’t do this approach will become a liability. Hard-capped raid sizes are one of those things that, once you’ve seen the alternatives, you think you want it or claim to want it to gain approval with a certain group, but in reality you don’t. I definitely will never have any desire to serve as a raid leader or guild officer because they are going back to this system, and if I have to consistently fight for a raid spot, I just might not play at all anymore. It’s honestly one of my biggest points of concern with Forever along with mob/resource contention at 60.