Masters of subtlety and destructive power take center stage in this World of Warcraft: Forever class deep dive. Explore how updates to Rogues and Warlocks build on the defining tools, tactics, and playstyles of each class.
3 Likes
At least sap is fixed.
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Aw, they took the stuns away from mace combat rogue.. I liked that style way back when.
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Rogues want to use finishers in PVE - stop dumbing down rotations. Add rupture into the mix for the love of all that is holy.
Also while similar in effect, rogues in fact have blade flurry and not sweeping strikes.
10 Likes
Just for reference, the 31 Point Capstone Talent in Subtlety, Thousand Cuts, is being changed to Death Mark from Titan Reforged (WoW China), as talked about on the Episode 2 Forever Podcast.
Here is an english translation of Death Mark from Titan Reforged:
Death Mark is a finishing move that marks the enemy and stores a percentage of the damage the Rogue deals over the next 6 seconds, based on the number of combo points consumed.
When Death Mark expires after 6 seconds, all stored damage is unleashed onto the target.
Based on 1 to 5 combo points consumed, Death Mark Stores 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% of damage dealt.
Drain Soul now has a progressive chance per tick to grant a Soul Shard (chance increases each time it doesn’t happen, until guaranteed).
Please make this so you don’t gain shards from duels/pvp. On SOD, this exact change opened the doors to summon bots. They can produce an infinite amount of shards with 0 effort.
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The incorrectly posted section has been updated and should now have the correct information pasted in.
5 Likes
One more for you. Rogues do not have Sweeping Strikes ability
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If we don’t get an RP-PVP ruleset then I’m making a rogue to gank you & a warlock to sacrifice you for a Doomguard!
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Could we please just remove charges on the max rank of poisons?
Also with the modern energy changes it would be awesome to have combo points tied to your character instead of the old system and not need to use the awkwardness of Redirect. Just have them rapidly fall off while out of combat (decaying 1 per second).
6 Likes
this. stop cornering us into retail-style combat rotations. cant stand that
Nethaera!!! Competent and courageous, righteous and renowned! Please give our plea for RP-PVP rulesets a gander!
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Why was my question asking the person about a Rp-PvP ruleset removed immediately after posting it???
Literally removed. No notification.
Am I not allowed to ask people who post requests in the thread about the request?
3 Likes
yay rogues get sweeping strikes now!
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Some feedback (actually typed and not AI-generated):
Grim Reach from Classic which increased range of Affliction spells by 20% has been removed. Newly added is Destructive Reach which increases range of damaging spells by 20%. It was discussed in episode 2 of the WoW Forever podcast how this means Fear is capped at 20 yards instead of up to 24 yards, which hurts it in PvP. It is worth noting that curses are also affected as well, being capped at 30 yards instead of up to 36 yards. This makes Destructive Reach awkward in PvE since damaging spells would be at 36 yards while our curses, such as Curse of the Elements or Curse of Recklessness would be stuck at 30 yards. One possible resolution is adding a range increase for non-damaging spells to an existing talent in the Affliction tree. Possibly reworking Improved Bane of Agony, since that is a low value talent currently undesirable for both PvE and PvP.
Health Funnel does not scale with spell power or healing power. This did not scale in original Classic but did in The Burning Crusade onward. This is problematic since pets now scale with our stats. This means that even at low levels Health Funnel has low value and the value drops more as we level up and obtain better gear. Improved Health Funnel does not address this as it is just a percent increase on a static amount and ends up being 2 talent points that no PvE or PvP build will take. In its current state, Health Funnel is an ability that is never used. Right now, at level 20, it takes 58 seconds of Health Funnel to heal my Voidwalker. This amount of time will continue to get longer. If a player has a Voidwalker low on health, they are incentivized to just summon a new one instead, which speaks to how underpowered Health Funnel is. The concern may be Health Funnel allowing a Warlock to solo encounters that they should not be able to. However, right now, Health Funnel’s usefulness is too low and has plenty of room for improvement without risk.
A general thought on PvE talent tree balance. If the goal is equal DPS, Demonology has the advantage because of its survivability (Soul Link, extra stamina) and utility (Fel Domination, Demonic Sacrifice, Master Demonologist). A PvE Demonology build also has the flexibility to take the survivability talents, which isn’t true for Destruction or Affliction. To promote diversity in choice, the trees either all need equal damage and survivability, which brings its own challenges, or need trade-offs between them. Right now Demonology is simming (with our limited data) as the strongest PvE spec and is generally considered the strongest PvP spec. So it would be good to see Affliction and Destruction either brought up to par on both damage and survivability, or given higher damage but lower survivability.
Demonic Knowledge seems odd in that it gives a static 60 Spell Power. This might feel fine at first, but become less valuable as WoW Forever progresses. A percent increase to Spell Power might be a better option.
Many of the Demonology talents do not affect Infernal or Doomguard. We aren’t yet able to see this in the beta, but the worry is that our strongest demons will end up undesirable to use in our Demonology spec, which goes against class fantasy.
One new thought that I’ll make a separate post for. When playing as Demonology, if we die, such as in a battleground, we now have to summon 2 demons in a row to get our Demonic Sacrifice and Master Demonologist benefits back. This will be highly disruptive. Even if our demon ressurects with us in a battleground, it isn’t the one we sacrificed, so we still have to double summon. The easy solution would be the capstone talent also making demonic sacrifice persist across death.
These are just my personal thoughts, but there is much more feedback in the Warlock Classic Discord!
12 Likes
Why is warlock ability range still gimped? This was literally brought up on the podcast and needs to be fixed…
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We’ve corrected the following line to say the following. This was purely human error.
Combat and Subtlety have support for all weapon types, with Combat focusing on hard hitting direct damage and little bit of cleave damage with Blade Flurry, and Subtlety focusing on combat tricks and Bleeds.
We’ve also updated the note on Puncturing Wounds:
Puncturing Wounds: (Formerly Improved Backstab.) Now also increases Mutilate crit chance by a lesser percentage, and gives Backstab a chance to grant an additional Combo Point.
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You could of least deleted both of my posts instead of leaving the one I had already deleted. What about the subcap stone issue that was in that now deleted post of mine?
Warlocks range is still gutted. It needs to be hotfixed to all spells. Curses having 30yds and damaging spells 36yds is completely awkward. Fear being 20 is unusable against range classes unless you get into melee so they can’t just run out of range.
Drains aren’t operating correctly when on a feared target. The drain breaks instantly when out of range, when it should have a few yard leeway.
Affliction is very underbaked. Has no way to increase AoE damage to the level of demo and destro. Opportunity to bring back Seed of Corruption? Affliction currently has almost no use in PvE except for 5pts for hit/threat and instant corruption. Drain tanking while levelling is very ineffective with no Dark Pact and high base mana cost of Siphon Life and Drain Life. Playing demo for Brand is better in every way. The gold/21 point talent is just a normal siphon life. There was a huge opportunity missed to take the WotLK approach and push it into corruption and then count Curses towards Soul Siphon for the max damage profile.
Lastly, Wrack needs a serious look at. The damage it does based on early looks is just outright sad. The only buff it gives is 10% DoT damage. There’s no flavor to Affliction as is compared to other classes and specs. Wrack should be given a built in execute, or a larger damage ramp. Possibly some sort of ability to spread corruption from your target in an aoe. Something added to your capstone talent that isn’t as boring as 10% dot damage.
Demo/Destro look fun, I enjoy the direction of shadow and flame and the double sac. I just wish THE DoT class got the same attention.
Hopefully some changes can be implemented before launch 
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Alliance Warlocks will be unicorns if Shatter Curse is not adjusted.
1 Like