Everyone has seen his twitter post from 2024: “If we had it to do over again, we’d like have normalized rage . . . and focused on major changes to their gameplay to compensate.”
Where are the major changes in compensation, Aggrend? Where are they?
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Back in Cataclysm without being moved into Forever, apparently. Since that’s when Normalization happened before.
Hopefully on the next podcast they talk about this because it’s getting to be fever pitch levels.
the major changes to your gameplay is that you don’t press heroic strike anymore
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The one button Warrior has until 40 cannot be pressed because there’s no rage. Yay.
Actually it’s more than that. You don’t press any buttons anymore. No rage. It’s auto-attack simulator. IE Ret paladin in 2004. And the best part? At 60 its the same.
Compensation for Rage gen at least for Fury, is the fact that both weapons generate rage, and going down the talent tree it fixes the normalization to an actual large degree. The issue is you aren’t gonna feel it until minimum level 29, and from there it will feel better and better the more +hit you have.
At levels 15-19 you get:
Unbridled Wrath 5/5 - Gives a 60% chance to gain 1 extra rage when a weapon hits. Or 2 rage for a 2H weapon. So if you dual wield as in fury, you get 2 chances since you have 2 weapons, meaning still 2 additional rage possible if both swings land and proc.
Further down at levels 25-29 you get:
Dual Wield Specialization 5/5 - Increase your off-hand weapon damage by 25%, off-hand rage generation by 100%, and chance to hit with off-hand weapon attacks by 10%.
The hit for off-hands is a big deal because right now fury misses a lot when they dual wield and misses = no rage.
Then from levels 30-32 we get:
Precision 3/3 - Improves your chance to hit by 3%.
From then on out, it’s getting gear with +hit and such over time making you land even more hits and generate more rage.
I’ve played Warrior since 2004 vanilla, and from what I see, it’s gonna be fine, it just isn’t until you cross the level 29 threshold, and warrior never felt perfect before having a ton of talents and gear before, I don’t expect them to now at low level either, but I do see a lot of compensation in the talents and honestly many of the people who complain about rage normalization right now, have not bothered to read the talents and truly understand their implications.
If there were simulations with that data in place, I think people would feel a lot better because they would see the compensation in action.
Unfortunately we have to wait til 29+ to see for ourselves right now.
But it’s gonna be fine, and if it needs tweaking at that point I am sure they will adjust.
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Okay now how does Arms get rage?
I know this is a joke but everyone forgetting the value of Warrior once you get a decent 2hander and just fighting mobs 1-2 levels higher than you for the sole purpose of proccing Dodge for Overpower is mind blowing to me. Plenty of rage for rend, hamstring kite, overpower.
Crits not getting extra rage is a big miss though.
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Arms get it through
Anger Management: Auto Generate 1 rage every 3 seconds
Also speccing into Unbridled Wrath in Fury for the 60% chance at 2 extra rage.
Two-Handed: Weapon Speed × 4.50 = Rage per successful auto attack.
So we take Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brothehood as an example with an attack speed of 3.5.
3.5 x 4.5 = 15.75 or ~ 16 rage on a successful auto attack.
- 1 rage every 3 seconds which mostly coincides with auto attack for conservative purposes.
60% chance at 2 more rage every time I deal damage(assuming based on wording not auto attack, any damage) but even if it is just auto attack it should be fine.
I think because Arms is slow and heavy, it should be okay, since arms has never been focused on RPS.
But we’ll see, they could be fine, or could need some more work, it’s hard to tell.
I also think we should include Improved charge here for 16 rage at opening, since as a more pvp focused spec, you have your rage for the big opener and your goal is to destroy the other player relatively quickly.
But since you don’t always get the drop on the other player to get charge off, we’ll see. I think if any spec might need more rage lovin it might be arms. But again hard to be sure.
But we can and do sim already because its 100% predictable and yes when we hit full blown mc/bwl gear levels and get enough hit and expertise it will still be garbage. Are we supposed to wait for a full year into the game to get a class that pushes buttons? Even then you won’t push buttons like you would in that gear without world buffs at the same level.
Arms doesn’t work in any mode at any gear level right now.
I have not found any available sims to cover rage gen, so if you have any reliable ones please share.
I have only seen players giving calculations beyond the base formula, that they math out on their own.
So lets do the quick math on this. No, I dont have a dedicated app to this. The math is so basic, no one is even bothering. It just looks even worse if we assume not hit/expertise capped.
20 rage form angerman a minute
17 swings a minute at your swing time of 3.5
Unbridled wraith gives on average then 20 rage a minute as its only autos with said weapon.
17 swings if all hit, thats 272 rage a minute.
So assuming you hit all white swings and none of them glance, 312 rage a minute. MS takes 30 rage and has a 6 second cooldown, so thats 300 rage a minute in MS alone.
That leaves 12 rage a minute for anything else. That’s not enough for 100% rend uptime its not enough for overpowers.
You absolutely won’t be slamming.
No rage for sunder/demo/tclap.
Hey you can sacrifice your ability to place one rend on the target per minute to battleshout. So there is that. if the fight last 3 minutes you’ll get to rend twice if you dont need to intercept or any other ability on your bar.
Edit: I didnt include blood rage, so you can mostly keep rend up if you use it on CD all the time. I don’t include charge because in raids you can’t always charge and it would only effect the first minute of the fight and cover the battle shout cost.
As for damage taken you might get another 15-20 rage a minute if there is aoe damage going out every second. Which most fights simply won’t have.
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Joke’s on us. The radical change was that our Rage is actually blue. It starts with a full bar and works backwards.
What he meant was we’re supposed to reroll Paladin.
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Where are these sims, I haven’t found a reliable one.
Also, you can’t sim anything because you don’t know what the gears going to actually look like.
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pull more mobs then you get more rage
if you dont die
Why is this such a common sentiment when we see our abilities, our talents, and everything surrounding potential rage gain? The only thing that could effect it is something that literally says something along the lines of “Set bonus causes X to generate rage” or “Item gives you rage on hit”.
Really, can you explain this? It does not get better with gear. That’s the entire point of rage normalization. It’s that you have a “good” baseline for the resource.
Furthermore, accepting the fact that warrior has a horrid leveling experience (We all go into this knowing that). You’re also basically saying “Just wait until 60!” Which reinforces the fact this take makes ZERO sense because you’re basically annihilating the entire selling point of what they want to do in Forever.
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The thing is “Gear” at this point doesn’t just mean “More STR” etc. We do not know what effects and passives and/or set bonuses we may see during our leveling and L60 journies.
This is a beta, and we should be testing and providing feedback for what we’re expereincing in the beta. Trying to jump the gun and doom about 60 when we’ve got access to 20 is silly and a waste of everyones time, your own included.
Also I leveled Warrior first thing, as Prot. It felt fine honestly outside of the dogwater threat on Sunder that left me disapointed. That didn’t get touched until after I was already L20 and had run every instance and collected enough blues and leveled professions enough I mothballed and moved to another class till the 30 hike comes.
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Assuming your math is correct.
Based on Vanilla/Classic Formula with the same weapon. 17 swings per min. ALL Landing.
335 Rage per minute if Zero critical strikes occurred
435 Rage per minute assuming 30% crit rate, and said critical strikes occurred
not a far cry from the 312 normalized for the zero crit classic number, and
yes about 123 rage per minute less without crits.
I don’t see that being horrific for arms, since arms is more for short and high damage against an opponent, not prolonged battles against raid bosses.
Like I said earlier I do think it may need tweaking and I think Arms is potentially worse off than Fury.
But Fury was given compensations that are noticeable and valuable. And I think people are not mathing them out properly.
Awesome. Everyone agrees that prot pretty much feels fine and doesn’t really need many changes. The DPS specs on the other hand are suffering. Like I said in my previous post in which “More STR” has quite literally nothing to do with it and I don’t really understand where that came from. But all the power to you.
I understand it is a beta, but I am still asking you beyond something that is COMPLETELY hypothetical to give me ANYTHING that is RELIABLE without GEAR that should address rage issues.
My point is dooming about things we have zero insight into at this point isn’t helpful and clearly not helping with your sense of enjoyment. The point I made about Gear had less to do with Gear and more reiterating that we’re talking about things we simply have no actual knoweldge about.
For all we know there’s going to end up being Plate with Rage generation abiltiies or Weapons that generate extra rage on crit.
People have extroplated out L20 systems to L60 and the math isn’t mathing for sure, but it’s not useful feedback because we don’t know what L60 will actually look like.
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