20 years and people still haven’t figured out what made classic WoW so special

Just saw the classic+ survey that Blizzard sent out, and they still haven’t figured this out either. They have tried “no changes” vanilla. They have tried out a mechanically difficult season-of-mastery. They have tried new casual-friendly content on season-of-discovery. Kudos to them, some of these were fun games for a while. But they still haven’t figured out the real secrets to OG WoW’s success:

  • Gated content
  • Community

Sounds so simple. And yet, these are the 2 things Blizzard keeps messing up over and over again

Gated content

Yes, you need amazing content. A beautiful world. Interesting lore. Raids that people are excited to see. Everyone already knows this. But here’s what people haven’t figured out yet. It also needs to be gated. It should take people a lot of time and/or effort before they eventually get to see that content.

Vanilla and TBC do the best job at this. Vanilla had a ton of amazing beautiful content. Most of it in the open world. The dungeons and raids were also interesting enough to make people want to see them. But what made Vanilla and TBC S-tier was that all this content was gated. You want to go see STV which all your guildies are talking about? You need to first spend tens of hours leveling to 30. You want to go see Stratholm, the same place where Arthas massacred an entire town? You need to spend weeks or months leveling to 60 first. You want to go toe-to-toe with Kel Thuzad? You need to spend an entire year working your way through MC, then BWL, then AQ, before doing anything meaningful in Naxx.

None of this stuff was mechanically hard. It just required time and effort. Anyone could do it, your grandma could do it, if they kept at it long enough. And that’s what got people hooked.

Yeah, people complained about it, even back in 2005. “I have 4 children and 2 jobs. I don’t have time for all this leveling and dungeons and raiding. Come on man, just let me have fun and clear Naxx!” And every year, Blizz caved a little. They made it easier to zoom through your leveling. They made it easier to bypass content and go straight to the latest raid. They made it easier to see and kill the BBEG. Fast forward to WotLK/Cata, and a fresh character can zoom their way to max-level in record time, catch up on gear by spamming LFD, and down Arthas/Deathwing in a 10-man easy-mode raid. All this in a month.

And guess what people do when you remove all those content gates. They binge on everything. And once they are done bingeing because there is nothing left to see, they get bored and leave.

Back in Vanilla, only a tiny handful of people even saw Kel Thuzad. But everyone was so amped to work their way towards it, one bit at a time. And they kept playing because they had so much cool content that they still hadn’t seen yet, and were working their way towards. Fast forward to Cata, everyone and their grandma killed Deathwing within a couple weeks of release, and subscriber numbers have been in free-fall ever since.

Community

But the content wasn’t the only thing that kept people around. Vanilla leveling content was amazing, but let’s be honest. The raid content was only 7/10 at best. And yet, people stuck around for years and years. Partly because they still wanted to see the remaining content… but also because of the community. People made real friends on WoW. But it wasn’t just that. People made enemies. They made reputations for themselves, and knew others by their reputation. When I left my guild in OG vanilla, I was literally on the verge of tears. No other game came close.

You wanna know what made the OG vanilla WoW community so amazing? The answer is so simple. People knew each other. That’s it. It’s that simple. When you walked around SW, you saw people you recognized. When you joined a BRD pug, you recognized half the people in it. When you joined a BG, you recognized the guy who ganked you. When you heard about some guild getting the server-first Rag kill, you personally knew a few people from that guild.

All this happened for two reasons. First, you had to talk to people to get stuff done. Want to do an elite quest in Duskwood? You had to ask around in general chat. Want to run a dungeon? You have to talk to people to join a group or put one together. Want to clear a raid? It wasn’t as hard as mythic… but it was just hard enough that you had to either join a guild or a well organized pug where people actually talk to one another.

Second, the number of people you ever saw was soooooo much smaller. OG vanilla servers were basically low-pop by today’s standards. And there was zero cross-realm stuff, even the BGs were only within your server.

Yeah, it was frustrating. It was frustrating trying to get your elite quests done. It was frustrating trying to find a dungeon group. It was frustrating having to wait 20 minutes to do a BG. It was frustrating having only 10-20 guilds to choose from if you wanted to raid.

But this was what made the community so special. It felt like you were a kid again. It felt like you were in school or a small college, where there were only a few hundred people and everyone kinda knew everyone else.

Fast forward 20 years, and WoW is now a hack-and-slash like Diablo, with zero community. Everyone you see outside of your guild is a complete stranger whom you know nothing about. You can play the entire game without ever having to talk to another person, with streamlined leveling quests, and LFDs/LFRs/BGs/Arenas where you will never recognize another person. Even in Classic, the megaservers like Faerlina were so big that the only community that ever existed was intra-guild communities. Yes, those were great, but nowhere close to the server communities that existed in OG Vanilla.


If you want a classic+ that is as amazing as OG vanilla or TBC, those are the things Blizzard really needs to figure out.

  1. Create content that people want to see.

They know how to do this. They did it already with Kara Crypts and Scarlet Enclave. They have this part down

  1. Gate that content so people have to slowly work their way towards it.

It doesn’t have to be super mechanically challenging. Just challenging enough so people need to slowly gear up. Learn the fights. Put in their time. Do all of the older content leading up to the latest content. Make friends, join a guild, and talk to others

  1. Create a real community

Get rid of every single cross-server stuff. Get rid of stuff like LFD and LFR. Cap server populations to the same sizes as the OG vanilla servers. Make server populations small enough that it feels like you’re in a small town where everyone kinda knows everyone else

Yes, people are gonna complain. They are going to complain how unfair it is that they can’t clear the latest raid for a while. They are going to complain about how badly they want to run BRD at 4am in the morning. They are going to beg you to remove the server caps so everyone can transfer to a single mega-server. Ignore them. People will optimize the entire fun out of the game if you let them. That’s exactly why subscriptions and retention are tiny now compared to 15 years ago.

Create interesting content. Make people work for it. Make people talk to one another and work together to get stuff done. Cap server sizes so people don’t feel like an anonymous face in the crowd. Do all this, and you’ll get back the magic of vanilla

25 Likes

They never tried no changes vanilla.

That’s a lie.

They don’t know what makes Classic good because they don’t play the game.

I could make the game 100% better if I was in charge and I never even played Vanilla but I understand Vanilla and what makes it good.

The people who actually cared bout making a good game and the ideals of vanilla are long gone.

All we got left are retail devs that are trying to copy and paste retail into Classic and call it new content.

SoD was literally copying skills from expansions into a Classic world and trying to trick people into believing it’s new or Classic.

Also, who asked for healing mages or rogue tanks? No one, ever has.

17 Likes

+100 years ago people was traveling by horses and it was the real deal.
now you wanna give people horses and expect them to use it for traveling between countries?

anyway it’s not just about people because a new game despite being good or bad can’t give the same feelings as 20 years old game, there is a huge difference between playing a total unknown new game for first time trying to clear it or playing that game with walk-through!

and a side from that…classic getting re-released with last patch note!!! making it obvious that 2019 classic project had nothing to do with vanilla experience! Blizzard did target the Private servers players not OG players.

3 Likes

Wrong wrong wrong.

You can have a successful 20 year old game and WOW classic relaunch proves this.

Not everything has to be modernized for the lowest common denominator person with attention deficit disorders.

LOTS OF PEOPLE like slower paced games where they can chill with FRIENDS. This is LITERALLY what made WOW famous and attracted EVERYONE on the planet.

The devs don’t understand this and that is why Retail has gone the way it’s gone and why lots of people quit WOW.

It’s too hard for most people and is too complicated now.

12 Likes

Yeah rose colored glasses are fun :stuck_out_tongue:

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WoW classic was not nearly as successful as vanilla and the vast majority of the playerbase jumped on TBC Classic when it was an option.

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WOW classic was SUPER successful.

You must not understand math or numbers.

Also, WOW classic and TBC are not that much different.

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And almost all of the vanilla classic players moved to TBC Classic :stuck_out_tongue:

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The fact they keep doubling and tripling down on megaservers and layers proves immediately they have no clue what made the old game so special. You don’t have communities in these servers. You don’t know anyone outside your guild or friends. Reputation means nothing.

You don’t have a world. The World was the star of Vanilla. Now it’s a carved up abomination.

Any ‘classic+’ type project is doomed until they get devs who actually loved and appreciated the old game, and understand what made is so unique and special.

9 Likes

Good thing they killed GDKPs along with 90% of pugs so people don’t meet each other anymore and just stay logged off.

WoW is a sandbox MMO and they banned something that should never have been banned.

Murdered the community and a brilliant community idea.

Save classic and unban GDKP!

6 Likes

You mean people moved onto new content after finishing vanilla WoW? Who would have thought.

TBC is my favorite but these arguments about era are so disingenuous. Era of any version of WoW will never be as popular as a clean slate progression server, even less when people just finished the content and went onto something new. There is a reason private servers do fresh resets and only use era as a museum piece dumping ground. Blizzard finally learned the same lesson.

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idk, I used to think that but I think vanilla Era will continue to grow over time - it may even get a massive growth wave in the future.

There’s something about being able to pvp or pve anytime you want without having to continuously hamster wheel to do endgame content with just slightly different enemies.

Especially for the people that only play a few hours a week, Era is a great investment. I can break for 6 months, come back, and within 10 minutes queue into a WSG and everyone is playing hard and having fun.

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It will be interesting to see how things play out a vanilla/TBC/Wrath reset cycle could be interesting. Especially if there’s era servers you can dump characters to for each.

They do seem to realize that moving phases quickly in classic phases works.

Vanilla does not provide that >.<

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What do you mean? That’s exactly what Era is…

I could log on and be in any raid below naxx probably within a couple hours in a pug or a naxx this week if I find a group.

Friday evening I’ll probably login and pvp whatever BG weekend it is.

And if I stop for 6 months I could login and do the same, there won’t be 10 levels to gain, a new meta that may have killed my preferred spec, a week of grinding remedial dungeons just do to a raid or pvp that gives a different color gear with a slightly different style

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Yep megaservers have to go.

They do not work. This is what happens when you listen to twitch streamers who can barely function as adults.

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Ah yes sure in the case of a static game like vanilla Era you can eventually reach the point of BiS and max pvp rank and have nothing else to do.

The grind to get there? That’s a hamster wheel, regardless of how you space it out.

You aren’t supposed to reach BiS and most people never do.

If you think you are supposed to reach BiS you don’t understand how MMOs work.

You have retail brain rot.

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It’s what happens when you listen to bean counters who only care about the upkeep cost and couldn’t care less about the trash experience it creates.

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Ah we just have a different definition - to me the hamster wheel is when they keep releasing new patches, seasons, expansions, etc. that force players to re-level or re-gear to be bis.

I know that most players want that since they play the game to fill time and enjoy progression and such.

But I really love that there is a game that I can get to BiS and then only play when i feel like it, and only play a few hours a week at the endgame.

Even dota, if you leave for 6 months or a year, you come back and have to learn a new meta - and in the last few years they are getting more and more annoying with changes and new things (I feel like they are going the wow-retail route with design xD).

I’m not saying it is good game design to make money or whatever, but it is good design for my personal desires.

And yeah it takes forever to get bis in vanilla - probably a couple years of weekly raiding unless you’re really lucky with drops. Getting 90% there is easy but that last 10% is brutal.

Play WSG and other BGs - most players, including myself, still have so much to learn and perfect to play 100% perfectly at pvp, nobody is.

We aren’t even close to the skill ceiling of WSG - getting bis / max pvp rank / having infinite gold for consumes is when the game actually starts.

1 Like