2 Groups Fell Apart Then Kicked

[Amine-blackwater-raiders (Amine)]

There already is all sorts of restrictions on how many times someone can vote to kick. Most people I would guess don’t even normally do more than 2 instances a day so this would do nothing much.

[Novembrex-malganis (Novembrex)]

I think if you leave so many Mythic+ groups within a certain timeframe, you should get a 4 - 8 hour debuff. Folks leaving Mythic+ is worse this expansion than last expansion believe it or not.

Or, they should show a completion ratio of the past 7 days. That way, you have credibility on finishing keys or not. To prevent abuse, this ratio should be broken down between every 5 levels. We don’t want folks to pad their ratio doing +3s over and over, having a false ratio, and bailing on 10s continuously.

What happens when groups agree to not finish a key because it is beyond them, de rank the key, and then finish the dungeon? Now five people are classified as “not completing” when all they did was use the system as intended.

The simplest solution is to form guilds and communities with players who will not abandon the group.

[Raicolette-moon-guard (Raicolette)]

What happens when groups agree to not finish a key because it is beyond them, de rank the key, and then finish the dungeon? Now five people are classified as “not completing” when all they did was use the system as intended.

The simplest solution is to form guilds and communities with players who will not abandon the group.

Easy solution, initiate a vote to call the key without consequence. Takes 3 of 5 to vote on calling the key. Leaving any earlier, faces consequences. Leaving after time depletes, no consequence.

You joined an event in game that takes time commitment. You should be penalized if you choose to leave. If the group votes to quit, that’s fully understandable and okay.

All it takes is 1 person to jack a key, because we can’t replace them mid key nor pause time.

I also would like to challenge that easy solution. Tried it, got tired of it, not convenient. My associate lists is maxed out of raiders and Mythic+ runners. I’d say maybe 2 ask me to run keys every week. It’s a personal problem but a realistic problem of not being convenient or “easy”.

[anon66757435]

If we are using the system honestly, then there does not need to be a cap on the number of vote kicks. If someone is using the system dishonestly, then they should be the one being kicked.

IF.
That apparently isnt happening.
Something needs to be changed.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

Something needs to be changed.

But does it?

If a person finds themselves getting kicked mid dungeon over and over and over im far more inclined to believe that they are the issue than the people who initiated the kick or the system itself

[Novembrex-malganis (Novembrex)]

If we are using the system honestly, then there does not need to be a cap on the number of vote kicks. If someone is using the system dishonestly, then they should be the one being kicked.

IF.
That apparently isnt happening.
Something needs to be changed.

But why is the change something Blizzard has to do? The problem isn’t people abusing the system by initiating vote kicks; the problem is other people supporting it by voting yes. More people need to vote no, which is what I usually do.

[anon66757435]

There already is all sorts of restrictions on how many times someone can vote to kick. Most people I would guess don’t even normally do more than 2 instances a day so this would do nothing much.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that.
How many times do I have to kick someone before action is taken? A dozen?
Thats more likely some vague thing out in the nether to most of these jokers who are kicking players for no valid reason.
Give them two votes per daily reset. Something tangible and in their face and it’ll have a much more direct affect.
I see people running stop signs all the time. Ive never seen anyone run thru an intersection where a cop was directing traffic.
These clowns need to SEE how their votes are limited in a very clear way.
They should at least try it and see what happens rather than leaving this crap the way it is.

[anon66757435]

Something needs to be changed.

But does it?

If a person finds themselves getting kicked mid dungeon over and over and over im far more inclined to believe that they are the issue than the people who initiated the kick or the system itself

And when the kicking player is voting to kick over and over and over…which is FAR more likely to be the case?

yeah…it needs changed.

[Novembrex-malganis (Novembrex)]

What happens when groups agree to not finish a key because it is beyond them, de rank the key, and then finish the dungeon? Now five people are classified as “not completing” when all they did was use the system as intended.

The simplest solution is to form guilds and communities with players who will not abandon the group.

Easy solution, initiate a vote to call the key without consequence. Takes 3 of 5 to vote on calling the key. Leaving any earlier, faces consequences. Leaving after time depletes, no consequence.

You joined an event in game that takes time commitment. You should be penalized if you choose to leave. If the group votes to quit, that’s fully understandable and okay.

All it takes is 1 person to jack a key, because we can’t replace them mid key nor pause time.

I also would like to challenge that easy solution. Tried it, got tired of it, not convenient. My associate lists is maxed out of raiders and Mythic+ runners. I’d say maybe 2 ask me to run keys every week. It’s a personal problem but a realistic problem of not being convenient or “easy”.

If there was a penalty for not completing without a vote, then people would face the “held hostage” problem above when someone wanted to quit but did not want to be penalized. They would be able to just throw a tantrum and refuse to contribute until the rest of the group agreed to disband. I am sure you can come up with a solution to that too, but someone else will abuse your solution.

If you are having such a problem with people abandoning keys, then I again think the problem is the people you are choosing to do keys with. If finding like minded players is neither easy nor convenient, then Blizzard should focus on making it easier for people to find other people they will enjoy playing with.

[Sieten-ragnaros (Sieten)]

Of course, but blizzard has determined that the upside of the vote to kick system greatly outweighs the downsides of it.

It’s more like Blizzard would have to WORK to tackle the downsides.
And they won’t, they won’t spend a single cent making it right.
So instead they just tell us to deal with it

[anon66757435]

If we are using the system honestly, then there does not need to be a cap on the number of vote kicks. If someone is using the system dishonestly, then they should be the one being kicked.

IF.
That apparently isnt happening.
Something needs to be changed.

But why is the change something Blizzard has to do? The problem isn’t people abusing the system by initiating vote kicks; the problem is other people supporting it by voting yes. More people need to vote no, which is what I usually do.

Thats as naive as saying that I dont need to keep my guns put away…or my car keys…because people who come into my house should just know better.
That works with many human beings…not all.
Its those clowns who will abused the system that created this need for the 30 minute timer from my understanding. They changed that.
So there is NO problem making changes to tweak the system to make it less likely to be abused.

Really odd that some are actually fighting against making the system more likely to be used for what it should be used for…kicking problematic players

[anon66757435]

Of course, but blizzard has determined that the upside of the vote to kick system greatly outweighs the downsides of it.

It’s more like Blizzard would have to WORK to tackle the downsides.
And they won’t, they won’t spend a single cent making it right.
So instead they just tell us to deal with it

exactly.
They had time to put this crappy, no ignore feature forum software in.
Had the money to pay someone to do it.
yet we cant find the time to fix that ‘in combat’ bug…or at least give us all a free toy to get out of combat.
No…send in a ticket and all you get is ‘use your hearthstone, we’re too busy having crumpets and tea to actually fix anything’.

[Raicolette-moon-guard (Raicolette)]

If there was a penalty for not completing without a vote, then people would face the “held hostage” problem above when someone wanted to quit but did not want to be penalized. They would be able to just throw a tantrum and refuse to contribute until the rest of the group agreed to disband. I am sure you can come up with a solution to that too, but someone else will abuse your solution.

At some point, excuses and scapegoats need to stop being created. Players need to be held accountable for the content they join for.

If you are having such a problem with people abandoning keys, then I again think the problem is the people you are choosing to do keys with. If finding like minded players is neither easy nor convenient, then Blizzard should focus on making it easier for people to find other people they will enjoy playing with.

When I pug keys, I always ask if the goal is to time or completion. Any keys that are strictly just aiming to complete and not time, I don’t join them. I’m not pushing harder keys to waste my time nor want to do so with others who aren’t intending to push.

As for keys failing more, I wouldn’t say it’s a problem a huge problem but it is becoming one. A system should be in place to prevent it from happening now, rather than let it grow and become a norm.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

I havent heard a system that beats it

So far ive got limit vote to kicks which only limits peoples ability to deal with those that ARE deserving of removal

[Novembrex-malganis (Novembrex)]

If we are using the system honestly, then there does not need to be a cap on the number of vote kicks. If someone is using the system dishonestly, then they should be the one being kicked.

IF.
That apparently isnt happening.
Something needs to be changed.

But why is the change something Blizzard has to do? The problem isn’t people abusing the system by initiating vote kicks; the problem is other people supporting it by voting yes. More people need to vote no, which is what I usually do.

Thats as naive as saying that I dont need to keep my guns put away…or my car keys…because people who come into my house should just know better.
That works with many human beings…not all.
Its those clowns who will abused the system that created this need for the 30 minute timer from my understanding. They changed that.
So there is NO problem making changes to tweak the system to make it less likely to be abused.

Really odd that some are actually fighting against making the system more likely to be used for what it should be used for…kicking problematic players

Are these people you let into your house or people who break in? I think most people should keep their guns put away regardless, but I do not hide my car keys when I have company over.

The “clowns” who abused the system were people who wanted to be kicked. You are saying there is a problem with the system because people who should not be kicked are being kicked. When 3/5 of a group says that someone should be removed, then that person should be removed. If two of those three are going along with it for no reason, then the solution should be focused on changing their behavior.

Although, as others have said, I’m not convinced this is a wide spread problem. I have run thousands of five man groups over the years, and the vast minority of those runs involved someone being removed.

[Novembrex-malganis (Novembrex)]

If there was a penalty for not completing without a vote, then people would face the “held hostage” problem above when someone wanted to quit but did not want to be penalized. They would be able to just throw a tantrum and refuse to contribute until the rest of the group agreed to disband. I am sure you can come up with a solution to that too, but someone else will abuse your solution.

At some point, excuses and scapegoats need to stop being created. Players need to be held accountable for the content they join for.

If you are having such a problem with people abandoning keys, then I again think the problem is the people you are choosing to do keys with. If finding like minded players is neither easy nor convenient, then Blizzard should focus on making it easier for people to find other people they will enjoy playing with.

When I pug keys, I always ask if the goal is to time or completion. Any keys that are strictly just aiming to complete and not time, I don’t join them. I’m not pushing harder keys to waste my time nor want to do so with others who aren’t intending to push.

As for keys failing more, I wouldn’t say it’s a problem a huge problem but it is becoming one. A system should be in place to prevent it from happening now, rather than let it grow and become a norm.

So what do you do when a dungeon you all agreed to push is clearly not going to finish in time but the remainder of the players decide they want to complete it?

[Raicolette-moon-guard (Raicolette)]

So what do you do when a dungeon is clearly not going to finish in time but the remainder of the players decide they want to complete it?

I never quit first. Always second though.

[Novembrex-malganis (Novembrex)]

So what do you do when a dungeon is clearly not going to finish in time but the remainder of the players decide they want to complete it?

I never quit first. Always second though.

But should the first person to quit be penalized when everyone agreed the only goal was to push?

[Medaax-area-52 (Medaax)]

Or the fact everyone was at 4 grievous stacks because the healer loved healing people to 89%.

[Raicolette-moon-guard (Raicolette)]

But should the first person to quit be penalized when everyone agreed the only goal was to push?

If you quit prior to the team finishing the key or time reaching 0, yes, you should be punished. If 3 of 5 team members vote to call the key, no penalty is enforced.