2 Groups Fell Apart Then Kicked

[Captsjw-thrall]

Why not just run mythic islands problem solved an for someone running plus 10s this shouldn’t be a problem.

[anon66757435]

He was only kicked 2 times in 19 months. That really isn’t all that bad depending on how many dungeons he does.

In any case, I can’t see that is something to complain as happening all the time.

I havent been kicked in I cant remember how long. That accusation when they dont READ someones post is as annoying as seeing the wrongful vote kicks to begin with.

The problem is Blizzard doesnt have the time to investigate all these vote kicks if someone complains.
they dont even have the manpower to get that ignore feature they promised us in here…and how long has that ‘in combat’ crap been going on? 7 years? more?

they cant sit around trying to mediate between the kicker and the kicked.
So they walk away and leave it at “deal with it yourselves”.
if the rules laid out how the system CAN be abused, then they’d pretty much have to investigate the complaints.
Saying their hands are washed of it all leaves them to let be an honor system where some ARE going to abuse it, just like some folks will drive right thru a stop sign…because they CAN.

Ive seen less than half a dozen JUSTIFIED vote kicks since I started playing this game.
Ive been kicked once for refusing to vote to kick a guy who was doing just fine in a 5 man, but the kicking player must have been a tantrum tossing 8 year old who just wanted him kicked for some unknown reason. I cant even repeat what he put in the box for the profanity.

I see that crap all the time. I vote no unless I know the player is doing something intentionally wrong.

[Cormia-fizzcrank]

I usually tank them and people follow along. I can see your side of it, example… if there are three dps and two of them are bad and keep pulling silly things. Still though, from personal experience, it just seems to go more smoothly with the group together.

[anon66757435]

You have seen people kicked because a majority of the group agreed to kick. The tank was the problem, but someone else got kicked? That means the rest of the group disagreed about who the problem was. The tank did not unilaterally kicked anyone.

really good at missing points, arent we?
The POINT of that one is that a spoiled child for NO VALID reason was trying to kick someone. Failed or not isnt the point there. Its his intended ABUSE of the system that in the right setting would have resulted in a player being kicked for no reason.
easy enough?

[Sieten-ragnaros (Sieten)]

That means the rest of the group disagreed about who the problem was. The tank did not unilaterally kicked anyone.

Hahahahaha, yeah, implying.
You can votekick anyone quite easily to be honest.
Just write something like “Hunter pulling” and kick whoever, people ends up smashing the YES button even if you’re votekicking a healer LOL.

[Amine-blackwater-raiders (Amine)]

I vote no unless I know the player is doing something intentionally wrong.

The vote kick was put in so that if 4 players decided someone wasn’t ‘living up to their expectations’ they could be removed. People don’t have to do ‘something intentionally wrong’ for the vote kick to be justified. That is why you are seeing more unjustified kicks than anyone else because you are using a different definition of justified.

[Novembrex-malganis (Novembrex)]

Then the problem isn’t the vote kick system, it’s the people “smashing the YES button.”

[Hamstar-draktharon (Hamstar)]

Nah man, I am imagining that it was a paladin healer and a group of 4 demon hunters.

[anon66757435]

When LFG was first created, Tanks and Healers would sell instant queues for DPS players. They’d party up, take gold. Queue, insta-place, hop in, and once the DPS loaded in, they’d leave the group, and go find someone else to pay them for an instant queue.

Because the group was formed and in the instance, they were placed to the front of the queue for a replacement tank/healer who would actually complete the run.

Blizzard stopped this with two things:

1. Deserter Debuff for leaving the group.
2. If you leave the dungeon, anyone who was in your party prior to the dungeon popping up leaves with you.

Tanks and Healers then discovered that if you were vote-kicked, you got neither the deserter debuff, nor was your party removed.

So they would hold groups hostage, refusing to do anything to get kicked. They did this for groups they sold instant queues to, and for dungeons that popped up that they hated.

So, Blizzard put the Deserter debuff onto the votekick system.

So, you can have the Deserter Debuff on votekick, or you can go through your DPS queues, then have the dungeon proc, hop in, and have the tank/healer leave or hold you hostage for a kick, and then wait until another one shows up who doesn’t instantly leave thinking it’s a fail group.

Blizzard chose Deserter debuff, and they’ve stuck with it for… 9 years now.

No, I understand the ‘why’ part of the vote kick.
What I also understand is that 99% of the vote kicks and attempts Ive seen have been over the kickers attitude…not because someone really needed to be kicked.
Bear in mind I am totally omitting vote kicks over someone being disconnected. Those arent kicks in the same manner, but just realizing a player is down and we need a replacement.

Im talking cases where players are doing exactly what they agree to when they signed up for the run…and some other rumphead wanting to kick them because he wanted to showboat for us all and someone else trashed his DPS 2 to 1 or even more.

When a tank sits down in the floor and refuses to pull the last boss unless we go along with his tantrum to kick the healer who just kept us all alive thru one of the hardest fights in a classic dungeon…yeah…thats just spoiled rotten childish abuse of the reason the vote kick was created.

[Novembrex-malganis (Novembrex)]

Then kick the tank, not the healer.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

People are the problem not the system.

[Sieten-ragnaros (Sieten)]

People are the problem not the system.

Pretty much this.
People using the votekick system to kick someone because, I dunno, felt like it and just wanted to have fun removing someone and putting a debuff on them is straight wrong.
Votekick should be removed for a month to show how much of an important system it is.

[anon66757435]

Then kick the tank, not the healer.

If you mean me…we were on the last boss. Who wants to sit waiting for a tank for 15 minutes when weve got less than 5 minutes left in the run?

By the time we realized this guy was clearly some rotten 12 year old he had already started running back down the way we came because I had pulled the next pack for him after sitting waiting for him to do it while hes screaming for us to vote kick the healer.

I found out after ward that he had tried to kick me but it didnt pass. That group didnt seem to be willing to put up with chumps.
The tank pulled out, we finished without a tank since again, we didnt want to wait 15 minutes for a tank.

Ive been at this game just long enough to know that AFK doesnt happen nearly as much as some like to claim…and the vote kick is abused far more than its used as designed.

[anon66757435]

People are the problem not the system.

obviously.
but any time you have human beings on the honor system some WILL abuse it.
Take welfare. Its there to HELP those in need, correct? Tons of abuse every single month. People will lie themselves right into a jail cell to abuse the system.
The vote kick was not MEANT to “kick you just because I can get away with it” and anyone who says that it is for that is directly accusing blizzard of promoting THAT intent…which is utter nonsense.

[Spiçy-area-52 (Spiçy)]

Of course, but blizzard has determined that the upside of the vote to kick system greatly outweighs the downsides of it.

Yes it can be abused, but so can practically every system.

[Raicolette-moon-guard (Raicolette)]

I think if you leave so many Mythic+ groups within a certain timeframe, you should get a 4 - 8 hour debuff. Folks leaving Mythic+ is worse this expansion than last expansion believe it or not.

Or, they should show a completion ratio of the past 7 days. That way, you have credibility on finishing keys or not. To prevent abuse, this ratio should be broken down between every 5 levels. We don’t want folks to pad their ratio doing +3s over and over, having a false ratio, and bailing on 10s continuously.

[anon66757435]

Of course, but blizzard has determined that the upside of the vote to kick system greatly outweighs the downsides of it.

Yes it can be abused, but so can practically every system.

agreed.
There is no perfect fix for this. But when people are limited theres less abuse.
Give us TWO vote kicks per daily reset.
That way if we are abusing it, it’ll only affect two players.
If we are using them honestly, then two should more than enough.
With only two votes per day we’re going to be far more likely to use them wisely and not just kick because we can.

[Abruek-turalyon (Abruek)]

I ran (2) +10’s last night and they both fell apart before reaching the end because the healers couldn’t keep up with the group and people raged. That was a good 1 hour of wasted time not accomplishing anything.

I mean, that’s what happens when an inexperienced or undergeared player is brought into a +10. I don’t see the issue here.

As for the Island Expedition, obviously they shouldn’t have kicked you, but staying as a group should prevent people from thinking you’re not doing anything. Unless of course you just so happen to queue up with obnoxious people who kick for nothing.

[Novembrex-malganis (Novembrex)]

Of course, but blizzard has determined that the upside of the vote to kick system greatly outweighs the downsides of it.

Yes it can be abused, but so can practically every system.

agreed.
There is no perfect fix for this. But when people are limited theres less abuse.
Give us TWO vote kicks per daily reset.
That way if we are abusing it, it’ll only affect two players.
If we are using them honestly, then two should more than enough.
With only two votes per day we’re going to be far more likely to use them wisely and not just kick because we can.

I’m pretty sure there used to be a limit on how often people could be vote kicked. It led to people (deservedly) getting kicked until they were more or less immune to being kicked.

If we are using the system honestly, then there does not need to be a cap on the number of vote kicks. If someone is using the system dishonestly, then they should be the one being kicked.

[Gulkas-barthilas]

Because giving a limit to the number of kicks won’t increase griefing at all. The very reason the system was implemented in the first place.

I don’t get why people are so up in arms about this, I have like six characters and I couldn’t tell you the last time I saw someone get kicked for any reason other than going AFK. The way some people are so fanatical about it says more about them than the votekick system tbh.