1.12 AV is a huge, huge mistake

[Shiyoakemi-illidan (Shiyoakemi)]

MoH were cancer and got even worse when you HAD to turn specific ones in for loot.

These things being in Classic is also one of my biggest fears ;/

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

Though I would say that having an earlier version of AV is in itself the compromise here. The people who want to spam BGs for quick honour ranking have WSG and AB.

Yup. I never understood the desire of the devs to make AV more like the other 2. WSG and AB are minigames in boxes. AV was as close to an open world zone as it could be with all the cool game world elements.

They wanted AV to focus more on pvp and less on pvp.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

They wanted AV to focus more on pvp and less on pvp.

(resulting in less pvp per match)

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

They wanted AV to focus more on pvp and less on pvp.

(resulting in less pvp per match)

/shrug if you choose not to pvp, sounds like there’s a player solution

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

There was a player solution in 1.5. Just pvp more if you didnt want pve. However the original design was advertised as pvevp. If you did not like that concept, you could either play the other 2 bgs, do wpvp, or suck it up and play AV as it was originally designed.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

There was a player solution in 1.5. Just pvp more if you didnt want pve. However the original design was advertised as pvevp. If you did not like that concept, you could either play the other 2 bgs, do wpvp, or suck it up and play AV as it was originally designed.

There are still NPC’s you have to kill in 1.12, there are no NPC’s in WSG or AB. So that whole pvevp is still alive and well, the pvp part is just a bigger part of it.

[Brokenwind-malganis (Brokenwind)]

There was a player solution in 1.5. Just pvp more if you didnt want pve. However the original design was advertised as pvevp. If you did not like that concept, you could either play the other 2 bgs, do wpvp, or suck it up and play AV as it was originally designed.

There are still NPC’s you have to kill in 1.12, there are no NPC’s in WSG or AB. So that whole pvevp is still alive and well, the pvp part is just a bigger part of it.

LoL, no, it became less overall pvp because of the design change. You have been told that repeatedly but you choose to ignore it and rather furiously backpedal into “well that is the players fault” BS.

Gonna get off of your merry go round of foolishness now.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

There was a player solution in 1.5. Just pvp more if you didnt want pve. However the original design was advertised as pvevp. If you did not like that concept, you could either play the other 2 bgs, do wpvp, or suck it up and play AV as it was originally designed.

There are still NPC’s you have to kill in 1.12, there are no NPC’s in WSG or AB. So that whole pvevp is still alive and well, the pvp part is just a bigger part of it.

LoL, no, it became less overall pvp because of the design change. You have been told that repeatedly but you choose to ignore it and rather furiously backpedal into “well that is the players fault” BS.

Gonna get off of your merry go round of foolishness now.

So did you or did you not have to kill NPC’s in AV to win the BG?

I’m sorry but 1.5 AV basically played as badly as one of the semi interactive cut scenes we get in retail.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

(resulting in less pvp per match)

Yup. If a race is the most honor efficient, then players will race. And in 1.12 AV It’s incredibly easy. Watching a video of players taking down Vann in 3m45s flat I noticed that you can aggro all the npcs around him, kite them out, aggro him, reset them and…they just stand there doing nothing. You don’t need to take down any towers to kill him by himself. 1.12 AV is far easier to zerg than Current WoW’s AV.

To be fair, you could individually pull the warmasters/marshals in prior versions too. But the thing is…you wouldn’t even get that far.

[Elyina-stormrage]

You haven’t the slightest clue what you are talking about if you think retail AV is like 1.12 AV. A lot of the worst changes were in BC. That is when they removed bunker/tower officers and made it trivial to capture them.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

You haven’t the slightest clue what you are talking about if you think retail AV is like 1.12 AV. A lot of the worst changes were in BC. That is when they removed bunker/tower officers and made it trivial to capture them.

The bunkers/towers are irrelevant when you can pull all the warmasters and marshals away and take on Drekk and Vann solo with every single tower on the map still up.

[Studmuffyn-veknilash (Studmuffyn)]

was that possible back then or did you mean now?

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

You haven’t the slightest clue what you are talking about if you think retail AV is like 1.12 AV. A lot of the worst changes were in BC. That is when they removed bunker/tower officers and made it trivial to capture them.

The bunkers/towers are irrelevant when you can pull all the warmasters and marshals away and take on Drekk and Vann solo with every single tower on the map still up.

And if you don’t want the opposite faction to do that go stop them. You know, pvp in a BG.

[Shiyoakemi-illidan (Shiyoakemi)]

And if you don’t want the opposite faction to do that go stop them. You know, pvp in a BG.

This exact same argument has been used in since 2007. It didn’t work then, and it doesn’t work 12 years later. You cannot convince 39 other players to do what you want.

1.12 turns AV into a paradise for people who only play for loot, so the majority of the players inside are those exact type of players. You will not be convincing them to play for “fun” when they don’t find the BG fun.

You know who else doesn’t find it fun? Everyone - because it was gutted and all fun removed so that the only “fun” is “getting rewards”.

1.5 AV at least is fun for a certain group of people, instead of just being a loot pinata. People who want loot pinata’s have retail WoW to play for that type of game play.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

And if you don’t want the opposite faction to do that go stop them. You know, pvp in a BG.

This exact same argument has been used in since 2007. It didn’t work then, and it doesn’t work 12 years later. You cannot convince 39 other players to do what you want.

It worked fine 12 years ago in 1.12. There were plenty if not the vast majority of games that were in fact not zergs. It also never took 39 other players to stop a zerg, even 5 or 10 can seriously mess one up.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

was that possible back then or did you mean now?

Back then. They were unlinked until patch 2.3.0:

• All Warmasters are linked to each other and their respective Generals and can no longer be pulled individually.

Up until then you could just pull them away, aggro Vann/Drek and fight them solo. There’s no point in taking any tower. As soon as players realize this (and they’ll know it going on)…that will be every AV. Run to the base, have a few people aggro the Generals/Warmasters, kite them out, aggro Vann/Drek, reset the others, and see who can burn him down the fastest. The only thing that will stop that would be the earlier versions with FAR more npcs (who were much stronger) who don’t even let you get there.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

was that possible back then or did you mean now?

Back then. They were unlinked until patch 2.3.0:

• All Warmasters are linked to each other and their respective Generals and can no longer be pulled individually.

Up until then you could just pull them away, aggro Vann/Drek and fight them solo. There’s no point in taking any tower. As soon as players realize this (and they’ll know it going on)…that will be every AV. Run to the base, have a few people aggro the Generals/Warmasters, kite them out, aggro Vann/Drek, reset the others, and see who can burn him down the fastest. The only thing that will stop that would be the earlier versions with FAR more npcs (who were much stronger) who don’t even let you get there.

So you need your entire faction to coordinate something that a handful of people on the opposite faction can easily break. Guess what happens when even one of those war masters you tried to kite comes running back?

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

Oh, so now you’re admitting that BfA AV and 1.12 AV aren’t the same thing. Glad you came around.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

How hilarious is it that when you prove that 1.12 AV is even easier to zerg than BfA AV, that the trolls’ only response is, “See, they’re not the same!!”

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

You can’t zerg BfA AV, of course 1.12 is going to be easier to zerg than something that can’t be zerged.

Unless you have a premade of Method players, you might be able to zerg BfA AV then.