10.2 Discipline Changes Testing

Chances are they did it BECAUSE of the Ultimate Penitence talent.

If we could consistently get 8 bolt penances every 4 smite casts - then we could get them every 2 smite casts under Shadow Covenant with our 4 piece - and with train of thought you’d also be resetting penance that fast.

It would unironically cause Ultimate Penitence to be a ~1-1.5min cooldown, and that would have made it pretty ridiculously overpowered.

Doesn’t change the fact the RNG feels awful though.

I guess in a way they could make it to where the Smites WOuldnt Double Dip and have it register only the Light Smites, Same goes for Penance Having only 4 bolts Count Towards the CD reduction and the 3 Extra Bolts just be Extra Damage and Healing

just beat up on the target dummies on the PTR for a bit. the damage of mindbender ITs is…substantial. The uptime also seems better, with it coming off cooldown basically as soon as it drops off assuming you dont need to reapply atonement during your ramp window and you get SWD resets at the beginning and end of that bender. only need 1-2 more smite casts to get it back after it leaves in most cases

Edit: ultimate penitence feels fine. I personally don’t love having another long cooldown but i definitely see the appeal as an oh shiz button. biggest noticeable change imo is squid going brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I’m just wondering what our go-to raid rotation will look like with Ultimate Penitence. You apply all your mass atonements, then Evangelism, then “Mind Schism,” then Ultimate Penitence?

Looking at the talents Again Weal and Woe is going to be need to be looked at from a Capstone perspective If Harsh Discipline isnt taken for the extra bolts

Chances are no - Ultimate Penitence applies atonement to 10 targets, and the duration increase isn’t really needed because it actually does quite a lot of damage/healing, and it’s a decent channel - so you have no real burst rotation while it’s running.

My bet would be you have an evangelism/rapture ramp and an ultimate penitence ramp now. In UP’s case, you just Radiance x2 → UP and you’ve got 20 people covered.


My knowledge and impressions here are very superficial currently. Hence, please steer me in the right direction if I am way off.

First off, I’m glad TE is going to be dead. It is a royal pain and I am far from alone feeling this way. There are already a ton of CDs to watch, and this will be one less hassle to be concerned about.

Second, PW: Solace is going to be gone. Yaay. I talented into it and have been casting it for years, but mainly pushed it because it got mana back. But really it was just another pain in the you know what to watch. Hopefully there is some kind of compensation for the loss of this way to get mana back–as in a pinch when the tank has pulled with you at zero mana.

Third, I am not sold on Ultimate Penitence. As much as it sounds great and is novel, it looks like another gimmick button to bloat your buttons, cool as it may be and wrong as I may be later.

Fourth, Weal and Woe is not bad and I actually hope it becomes baseline for most builds. It is very easy to use vs TE. It is great in pugs, and easy to implement. I also uploaded a good Weakaura to Wago for it, which makes it a snap to use. Check it out and download it and see what you think.

Fifth, will Mindbender and Shadow Covenant actually be one button? Top marks to the devs if this is the case, and high five to them for this. Two buttons into one is very very nice. The only thing I am curious about is the relatively long CD for this.

Other impressions to follow.

Ultimate Penitence is unironically the best healing CD in the game right now.

Atonement healing is now transferring an effective 48% in dungeons (not including mastery) considering it dropped to 32%, but gets a 50% increase out of raid.

Penance damage went up by 15%, so at base it’s doing 46% per bolt now. Now with penance modifiers that affect Ult Pen: +20% (Tier set), +15% (Blaze of Light). You’re at 62% sp per bolt.

It hits 5 targets for 180% sp on cast, then fires 24 penance bolts. 24 x 62 is 1488 sp damage. This is modified by Sins of the Many, so effectively we deal 2083 sp.

That then goes through atonement so 32% of that is 666 sp to all atonement targets. If you’re not raiding, increase that by 50% for being in a party. Now we’re doing 999% sp healing to all 5 targets.

Add in the initial heal of 180, and your grand total is 1,179% spellpower healing to all 5 members of your party. And that’s before mastery or Divine Aegis.

Revival in a party does half of that. Holy priest literally has to channel for 8 seconds to get 535% sp on a 5 man party. Hell, this is more healing than if a Holy Priest were suddenly able to cast Holy Word: Serenity of their entire group at once - 30% stronger, even. You can compare with any CD you want, and it’ll beat it out.

Do not sell Ult penitence short. It is a CRAZY strong button. I kinda expect it won’t hit live at its current tuning, even.

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My guess s before 10.2 they will have either done away with or reworked TE and Expiation. Unless your taking MG and you prob arent then MB’s cd kills both of those and they cant go live as is. So we might have some extra choics in 10.2 that we cant see now.

I like DA too much in current keys to do away with but when i think of S3 keys there isnt the same damage checks in keys, The witches in waycrest come to mind, but nothing major springs to mind in the other ones, so DA and Aegis might be left in the wayside except maybe waycrest. AoW might be nice on that dot

On the subject of dungeons im not a fan of the next crop. DHT cats gives me nightmares on high fort weeks. Cats leap your dead. BRH i have no idea why they brought that back so soon

Witches in waycrest is a nightmare, and we can’t stand still (therefore can’t ult. penitence) for the worst part of that fight, so not looking forward to it, tbh.

As far as the next set of dungeons, I’m not too excited either.

I was not a fan of the new megadungeon, and we got BRH, which is probably the worst legion dungeon there is.

I don’t mind DHT, tbh. Throne of the Tides might suck though. That place had a lot of backtracking if I remember correctly, and I also remember groups ALWAYS messing up the neptulon fight.

Same, did it once didint go back. Your memory in throne of tides is correct. Instead of BRH, with the sudden resurgence of classic i would have liked to see SFK or deadlines upgrade to mythic plus. There were plenty of cata dungeons that could have become keys outside of throne. I think we are all waiting for stonecore at some point

Swinging into leftfield here but contrition may see some play it that fight, but double pain sup certainly will

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I agree with you with everything. What I also will note is ultimate penitence is kickable, so while you won’t get stunned or polymorphed, you can be kicked. I would love if it was an act of God and you were incredibly empowered with your 50% hp shield and also a unkickable channeled cast. I don’t think that would be too OP in arena as it’s output is fairly slow. I managed to cast it on myself and no bolts going anywhere else and it was slower than flash heal casting to full.

Sanctuary as you say is nice, it’ll be a good way to assist disc in needing to heal less in arena and even pve. Solace isn’t going to be missed by me as it felt like bloat and awkward to weave in comfortably.

4set is garbage because if you do not spec the talent it becomes worthless. Tsets should offer power ups to your baseline toolset not make you deviate from your desired talent path.

I’m struggling to take any of the shadow talents in disc because they all feel like they’ll hardly help my output.

I was severely underwhelmed, esp coming from wotlk disc which was one of the best iterations.

Im praying that they dont send this Build Through cause i agree, TE Isnt functional anymore, Expiation isnt Functional anymore Weal and Woe isnt Functional anymore Unless you decide to take the Harsh Discipline Talent which im Hoping it gets Reverted cause having it based off of RNG Isn’t my Fave i don’t want to waste casting a Radiance Just to fish for a Harsh Proc that’s just bad…

I did some testing and Found out harsh Discipline Bolts do count towards the CD of Ultimate Penitence SO I’m guessing that’s why they made that change Otherwise it would be tooo Competitive.

Honestly these changes are done really well. Having Dark/Light Pathing Options, im Just not too keen on Mindbender AOE Path if i do put points into it it’ll just be enough to get Just Mindbender Alone, But otherwise Ill just stick with the Shadow fiend and the added 8 secs for the 23. i only took Covenant because your basically forced into taking it for the 4 Set set

Im thinking about taking Mindgames Seeing the Double Smites work for the CDR

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If something seems to good to be true, it probably is. This ability brings to mind something Disc priests had and was called “Spirit Shell.” We all know what happened to that. It also has a fairly long cast time and channel time that can easily be interrupted–such as when you have to move to avoid something.

Might I just add that this shiny new ability will end up nerfed or gone if it is very good. AND that personally, I would much prefer one less button with a CD I have to track, the load of them I find annoying to pay attention to. I would WAAAAAY far more prefer a passive ability that boosts the power of a button we already have vs another darn button–and one with a CD, a cast and channel time–both of which mean it can easily be foiled, as when you have to move to dodge something.

That said, if it is that potent and excites you to no end, I am happy for you.

The cast time is short. The channel time isn’t as long as most channeled cooldowns.

I do agree that it’ll likely be nerfed. But I don’t really agree with ‘tracking a new CD’

We don’t really have that many in comparison to other healers after we just lost Solace, Schism and Shadow Covenant as CD buttons.

I don’t really think movement will be a problem though. The channel isn’t incredibly long - but also in particular the current S3 dungeons. Nothing in the new lineup will threaten you standing still for a bit besides maybe one of the witches in Waycrest. And most mobs don’t have an interrupt - and we’re immune to CC during it so I’m not sure where that’s coming from.

It kinda sucks in PvP, yeah. But it’s a strong PvE button.

If you don’t like it you can pour the points elsewhere - I just think it’s a mistake to do.

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I just hope they make it so you can choose whether you want Ultimate Penitance to favor allies or enemies, depending on maybe who/what you have targeted to start. Most opinions I’ve heard is it favors allies, which I would prefer to just let the atonement healing from hitting multiple enemies with penance bolts do my healing for me than healing allies with it directly (I’m speaking from an M+ perspective, I’m assuming for raid it would be better to target allies?)

I hope they change shadow covenant or the new tier set, because we are tied to a single type of talents build.


Yeah the same occured to me. We will be locked i feel into squid build if you are running scov. More mana, more dps, more burst healing. Thats in raids. It will obviously be the go to in keys

Quite sure there is a bug on Ultimate Penance where it doesnt proc its own cooldown reduction. Cause the description of Heaven Wrath talk about Penance bolt. And UP says it cast 24 Penance bolt. So it should proc its own.

For Shadow cov tough. They really talk about Penance cast and not Penance bolt.
Same for Contrition they talk about Penance also. So if they change the wording on these 2 they wont proc with UP.

While the other one is probably a bug in my opinion. Cause its similar to the new Tree form for druid who reduce its own cooldown

I have a feeling they intentionally removed UP reducing its own cooldown with its bolts.

It functions as a penance bolt in every other way and specifically only doesn’t reduce its own CD.

And to be fair, that would be 48s of CDR for free. It SEEMS like it’s probably intentional.