That would be fine in a single player game, but works less well in an MMO where there often is a inner competition among players. Thatâs why people are now using RIO because they know gear doesnât actually reflect ability because the chance levels are so high. At the beginning of legion, you could be doing the same content as someone else, yet end up with worse gear and without a legendary, putting you at a disadvantage unless you have a supportive guild that dont care.
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So canât mythic raid stuff tf too? Whats the issue? You then get better gear anyways.
Like it really matters anyways, greens will replace all epics made in this xpac anyways. Your just wasting time chasing the carrot. Is it worth it to go so gung ho about it?
The statistical probably isnât unfair but the end result is. Letâs take one piece of gear as an example, letâs set an arbitrary % of a 425 ilvl TF as say 1% per week. Say there is 5 months in a given tier (20 weeks), thereâs a 10% chance during that tier to get a titanforge before it becomes irrelevent. So arbitrarily the game is deciding that during that patch 10% of the player base will have an artificially inflated ilvl item. Letâs say at 400 ilvl you get a 425 item. This would increase your average ilvl by 3, 1 overall ilvl is equal to roughly a 1% dps increase. So arbitrarily youâve been given 3% damage that 90% of others wont have purely based on luck. This is before considering when you get it, to get early enough that matters (ie first two months before everyone gets base ilvl gear) would put it at closer to 5% of the player base that getâs that arbitrary 3% DPS bonus.
This is the definition of unfair - where the system despite equal likelihood arbitrarily determines which players get a significant boost to power, where other players donât have enough time to equalize with those who gained that early power. This is assuming player skill and ability is equal and weâre comparing to peers. If you canât see how chance in this scenario can create a result thatâs unfair - then youâre being obtuse.
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I think youâre right - you are being salty.
I could get upset that my alts got lucky with not only drops, but also forging, and have a better ilvl than my main. I could get upset that the guy who fails every mechanic on every boss for a raid gets a 420 item with a socket.
Instead, I just focus on when I get lucky and receive the âbonusâ.
Youâre also correct in that there is no more sense of best in slot - THIS IS THE POINT.
If I all of a sudden had all of the best in slot gear - I likely wouldnât play that character any more until the next tier. Iâd rather take an alt that will have a shot at an upgrade when I invest time into playing this game. But if I have a shot at an ilvl/socket upgrade - all of a sudden I have an influence to playing on that first character.
At the end of the day - you donât need full BiS AND fully forged gear to clear all content. The world 1stâs have cleared mythic raids with just above Heroic gear. Anything else is just a bonus.
This bonus wonât make or break the game for you or your guild - therefore, it really doesnât matter at the end of the day. The changes it provides are marginal.
The reason why itâs ever a âbig dealâ is as you said - youâre being salty. Youâre letting emotion and envy get to you.
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Here is why itâs worth making a change to the system:
Last week I received a pair of 415 gloves that were a performance downgrade to my 410 titanforged gloves with a socket. Iâm not able to use the 415 ilvl gloves because they are a minor downgrade, I canât trade the gloves because the ilvl is too high, and I donât want to scrap them because I want to be able to trade gear in future. To have any hope of replacing this 410 item and I need to pray for the right drop on the right boss and hope that it also titanforges. Until then I need to hold onto these 415 gloves that donât make sense to use so that I can trade future loot. (This has also happened with rings, boots, pants all within this tier - itâs not an isolated event)
Objectively for me, these experiences make the game feel worse. I have loot that I canât use, I canât destroy and I canât trade. Itâs literally bag clutter from the highest base item level content available in the game.
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Just a quick reminder to keep the discussions focused on the topic and how your play experience is impacted. If there is a continued focus on simply arguing directly with others on being right or wrong then I will lock the thread.
Thanks for your understanding and happy Monday 
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Never! Iâm just joking.
But I do think that some players need to be addressed on the matter ofâŠ
Iâm all for having conversations with differing viewpoints. What muddies up the whole convo is when people are hellbent on being antagonistic and hold the mindset of âYouâre wrong because I say youâre wrongâ.
Just my 2 cents but again thanks for the post.
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I get alot of people trying to prove me wrong all the time, dunno what thatâs about.
I find it quite rude.
I may be wrong sometimes too though.
Having differing viewpoints is pretty critical for forum discussions and so we should all be coming here expecting such things to happen. The key word there is discussion and hopefully some level of understanding others in the process. Hopefully.
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At what point do we see some actual concessions made by the devs? Or do we continue this back of forth giving the illusion of feedback making a difference?
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I agree. Hopefully thereâs a lot to take from this thread thatâll be helpful to the game overall in its future.
Iâm betting when posters can post constructive feedback in a positive manner instead of negatively or offensive. ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
This entire thread is filled with constructive feedback. Asking if that feedback will be used to make change is a question you have to ask when the conversation has been going on for 4 years.
more of same thing going back in forth for 2100+ comments
Yes, constructive feedback was given, and received by the devs.
Alas, until they change the reward structure OR state their opinion, it means that the devs donât agree with you.
And since you continue buying and paying for the game, it means you are ok with it.
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This is a perfect illustration of how 4 problems all come together to create an unfun game experience.
- Random sockets
- The power level of sockets
- Titanforging
- Lack of Mater Loot / Inability to trade an item regardless of what you currently have
Imo all of these need to get removed or reworked or else this problem will persist, but honestly TF is the least egregious one here. If sockets are either made standard or reduced in power level then that 5 ilvl boost might out weight the socket depending on what the item is, and if you have master loot back or the ability to trade an item no matter what you currently have then if you get this item that is an ilvl upgrade but not actually a 5 upgrade for your character then you can give it to someone whom it will benefit.
Sockets are set, TF/WF removed. Heck I was okay with having the upgrade system even though it was a pain when I got an item mid raid, but it was no different then a socket or something that required an enchant. Just the way it is. And if they designed the system to remove that hassle, then theyâre trying to hard.
this is very rich comming from a group of designers and developers who say things like âyou think you do but you donâtâ and even today still have this mindset of âI know better than youâ with almost every single complained aspect of the game, including but not limited to TF/WF, PvP Vendors and Flying.
Hey, I get that itâs easy to get cynical. Iâm sure Iâve done the same. But having played the game for 15 years, I can tell you the devs listen.
Granted, my faith in the company is a little shaken after seeing them fire a bunch of non-devs to replace them with devs. That was, one, a dick thing to do after coming off a year with⊠what was it, record profits? and two, completely tone-deaf given the gaming industry in general, and industry in general in general. The cynical among us are convinced Activision wants Blizzard to just keep pumping out games for a quick buck; large corporations are all about following the money, whereas old school Blizzard (and most development shops, before theyâre bought out) was about developers following their dreams. But I digress.
Letâs assume for the moment that the people left at Blizzard still want WoW to be a great game. I could give you examples from the past of when theyâve listened to people on the forums, but Iâd be reaching way back, and Iâm not sure youâd remember.
This isnât something theyâre going to fix or change next week. Probably not even next patch. At best, and Iâm not optimistic for this scenario, any changes to loot will probably come out the raid tier after the two-boss raid thatâs coming down the pipeline. What is that, 8.2, I guess?
More realistically, itâs going to be an expansion before fundamental changes take place. Itâll be 9.0 before we see non-Personal Loot make its return to guild raids. I would expect 9.0 to be the point at which we see catch-up mechanics finally get fixed, war/titanforging get capped, and Blizzard finally admit to the idea that organized group content should reward higher item level â without exception â than solo or pick-up content.
On the other hand, I think weâve made some good arguments. If we havenât, maybe one of us should go to BlizzCon. But I think itâll happen.
But sometimes theyâre right, and sometimes youâre not arguing against the devs, youâre arguing against other players. For example, flying.
When they introduced Flying in Legion, it made the Kirin Tor quests where you fly through the air pretty stupid. And it made the murloc PVP world quest pretty stupid, too, because nobody in their right mind was going to stay on the ground when they could just hover and wait for murlocs to spawn.
And what advantages did flying in Legion give us? Well, not much, really. There were already so many flight points that adding in flying wasnât all that interesting.
If they donât introduce flying at all this expansion, Iâm okay with that.