10,000 YEARS will give you such a crick in the neck

Lore Story Forum
22

I am talking in wow days warcraft dsys blizz likeky never forsaw any of this so didnt plan it all out these dsys you need humans to get anything done

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23

Sadly that’s true, I also hate human potential, but I don’t think that they really hate them. Have you a source for what they’ve said?

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Sadly i dont i have just seen the quites around and i do buy it that they dont really like NE they dont really know how to write them kind of why despite huge story telling chances eith the vengence thing it is alrrady over with in fabour if screaming look at sylvanas she is so smart and cool and evil i bet you cant wait for her story.

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25

For me it’s less a “Hate them” as much as a “We need to worf someone” ordeal. In every expansion we had some great starting point to show how evil the villains are, Wrath and Arthas attack the capitals, Cataclysm had Deathwing blowing up the planet, Mist had Theramore being blown up. The Night Elves have the issue of both being the only alliance race really close to the horde, and being the only one developed enough to really lose things. Gnomes and Draenei have had nothing for most of their existence, while Worgen lived with nelves, and Dwarves have lost things as well, it’s just stuff like Bael Modan no one talks about because they have less of a dedicated fanbase and is done to a lesser extent as there are few dwarf holds the horde could reasonably attack, (And Bael Modan deserved it).

So basicly Blizzard want’s the horde to seem evil and invade the alliance, because they dare not imply the House of Wrynn can do any wrong, they then decide since the night elves are right next to the orcish capital, it will be the nelves who get invaded. It then becomes a stereotypical and kinda depressing trend that “Young Humans save Ancient Elves, showing the value of change and youth” that’s normally done in fantasy, but even then it doesn’t work because the night elves are doing most of the fighting on their own and that the night elves don’t have a prejudice against humans, so they learn a lesson they never needed to.

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26

I’m gonna need an example of that. The Night elves are one of the race who changed the most in the post WC3 period, and Tyrande led that change.

You know who refused to change? Fandral Staghelm.

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27

With the War of the Ancients, the Night Elves already had more backstory more central to the overall story than the other races. I don’t think the devs are liable to fill out 10,000 years of history on top of that. So to avoid that, they instead found a point where they could logically say “Aaaaaand fast forward to present day!”

However, there’s little indication that’s supposed to indicate what Kaldorei are actually like in game, since literally as soon as gameplay picks up again, then suddenly Night Elf society gets all dynamic and progressive again.

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28

the issue is the fact it seems so forced when you actually know what can happen in 10,000 years. If they just lowered the timescale by half it would seem so much less… Awkward.

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29

I agree-ish, but that’s one of those details that only annoys me if I choose not to ignore it. Elf lifespans are stupid / make little sense in most fantasy settings.

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30

Fantasy writers having no sense of time is a very common trope.

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31

Part of the price of being immortal lis that you’re pretty much have to be almost completely sterile to maintain a balance. That may have been why the bulk of the male population was kept literally under wraps.

32

Most of Kalimdor was under populated to open for population, the Night Elves had plenty of room to expand/rebuild the old empire. If anything the Night Elf population seems like it has continually declined since the WtA.

Personally I blame this on the derp decision to make druidism and priesthood gender specific for most of 10k years, and then having all your druids nap for the better part of 10k years, Night Elves can’t make babies without 2 to tango. Its also just being a bad spouse that every millenia or so you can’t wake up and spend even a century with your wife.

Also just look at the Quel’dorei in the same time period despite merely being long lived instead of immortal we built a new kingdom from scratch, while fighting the natives we angered, and still grew into one of the most populous nations in the Eastern Kingdoms.

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33

Good points, and while it doesn’t do your well-written ponderances credit, I’ve approached elf-time as being based on their proximity to “wells,” like a gravity well. The sunwell and well of eternity, for example, prolong life but also dilate the F outta time (I think Einstein said this exact quote).

Thus, 10000 years to Elves May be closer to 1000 years (or less) to other races. As if the well exhibits “black hole” like properties. Without the spaghettification.

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34

There is so much about extreme longevity the writers don’t address.

For one thing, how much can Night Elves remember? Their lifespans may be vast, but their brains are only about the size of a human’s. Humans already have memory problems as we approach the end of our immensely shorter lifespans. How does this play out with Night Elves?

Their birthrate would have to be near zero, or they would very quickly run into disastrous population pressures. How does having almost no children, almost no one young affect the way they see the world? See the amazing film Children of Men for a compelling take on how a lack of children might affect a culture.

Almost all would be doomed to eventually die a horrible, violent death. How does that knowledge affect them?

One obvious problem with Night Elf culture is that it should have almost zero resilience. It’s an culture of ancient people with almost no birthrate. The losses they just experienced should be absolutely crippling, and (if their was a shred of realism to this story) would almost certainly doom their entire species. It’s not like orcs or humans, who can repopulate relatively quickly, plus the Night Elves would totally lack innovation.

Imagine how very old people would cope, emotionally and intellectually, with their neighbourhood being wiped out. Now multiply that times 100 or so.

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35

This is a key aspect of it. However there is another that goes hand in hand. The author (op) assumes that the lack of technological progress is unintentional. I would argue the opposite. With extreme longevity and wisdom one may see where the road to un-curbed development leads. The author asks and asnwers his own question. In the 8000 years humans have existed, their progress has destroyed countless eco-systems, damaged the natural cycles of the planet, and is risking mass exitnction due to their unchecked development of technologies and expansion across the globe without regard to the consequences. The night elves may very well understand that for their society to actually endure, they cannot pursue reckless technology that destabilizes the balance and harmony of nature. Tying this into your post, the fact that there is no generational turnover means that this philosophy will always prevail. The notion of respecting the wisdom of ones elders and the druidic nature of nelf society almost guarantees that their philosophy and traditions will go unquestioned.

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36

A few things about this:

Firstly, not every man became a Druid, and not every woman became a Priestess. There were plenty of general citizenry of both genders. Your artisans, craftsmen, shopkeeps, innkeepers, etc. All free to pursue family lives, unfettered.

Secondly, neither calling prevents one from having a family. One of Elune’s aspects is Mother Moon. Motherhood is sacred to the Priesthood. And nothing really kept the Druids from playing their part in the cycle of Life. Fandral found time in between naps to not only wage war on the Qiraji, but also take a deep paternal interest in Valstann’s life, even after he was grown.

Thirdly, I’d point out the sheer volume of the evacuation of Teldrassil. Which Amadis covered in another thread:

I know numbers never really matter to Blizz. But, if they can utterly swamp Stormwind, filling the Cathedral to capacity, filling the inns 10-15 to a room, and spill out all the way into Elwynn, and still lose the vast majority of their population in a genocide, they’ve clearly been increasing their population over the past millenia.

Lastly, the gender divide has mostly been retconned. It was reversed so long ago that they have several female Archdruids, and the statue commemorating the abolition of the gender roles was an ancient archaeology artifact to be dug up.

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37

That’s pretty much your standard elf trope.

38

Indeed.

She attacked human and orc settlements because “orcs killed Cenerius”

Then she continued to attack them after the Legion reveled themselves. Until Medivh slapped her around.

It is interesting that Malfurion was willing to work with the humans and orcs upon learning that they were fighting the legion as well. But hot headed Tyrande was against it.

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39

Do you remember where she started to shine in a peak in Wolfheart and got shooten by an arrow. Tyrandumb is a lost leader for me.

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Ooh, Tyradumb. You sure have earned your #savage tag. :roll_eyes:

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I failed to see how she still can become an adorable leader. As far as everything since Cata were she was involved destroyed her a little bit. Since BfA there is not much leftover.