1/8m Raiders being 380+

Community General Discussion
525

The current WoW isn’t pushing away players… It’s people getting old and getting married/job etc…

Sure you can say “I have a job and kids and I still play”

But in reality, the majorities doesn’t even play like they used to 10years ago.

And I’m one of them… No matter what they do, even if they made the game great just like Wotlk… I’m still going to play it casually because of “life, and no time”.

It’s what it’s… people just don’t want to admit it.

We know Azerite and the gearing system is bad… but that doesn’t mean if they change those the game will have 12million subs again…

Lets not kid ourselves please.

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526

I’m going to stop you right there. You came to the wrong place for that.

Seriously though, if Blizzard could have the whole process 100% randomized without having everyone quit, they would. Raiding’s not where you go for gear in BfA

527

This is the catchup period
During the first raid tier
Of what will be many tiers

Put your private parts away
Put your big boy or girl pants on

Everything is going to be okay

2 Likes
528

It has nothing to do with people over gearing M+

You cannot compare 5man content with 20man content.

5man Content is completely different… even if it’s a +28 key, people could finish it in time without using any Voice/discord. because it’s 5man and they know what is going on.

Unlike 20man.

Just stop comparing them both together… and yes, +20 key now is way harder than M mythrax and a lot of M bosses… to beat it in time.

The whole point of high keys is that you can beat the timer, if you did… then yes it’s harder than a lot of M Raid bosses… at the +20 level… but if you didn’t, who cares about you wasting 2hrs there?

529

It isn’t especially since EVERY season there are only a few classes that are considered when running them. You can’t make an alternate means of gearing when only a few classes are viable.

530

Every class is viable and every spec is viable to do a key currently at 11 or lower. Higher than that then yes you will to very likely consider more specific specs.

531

That’s a cop-out. Other games have players that get old, and still manage to keep a healthy player base. You implement a mix of keeping your current players as much as possible, while attracting new players to replace those who do leave.

Look at Magic: The Gathering for example, which is celebrating its 25th anniversary this year. So it’s a decade older than WoW, and is actually still growing, because it both retains players and attracts new players.

WoW neither retains players well, nor attracts new ones at a sufficient pace. It fails on both counts.

532

You guys should have seen this coming when uldir released :rofl:

340 gear complete trashed with warfronts.
Now ,Heroic gear completed trash with incursions.

Its gonna happen again in the next two patches as well. So don’t put too much time grinding :+1:

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533

If you raid, you get better gear quicker. Simple as that.

While it takes everyone else several weeks to get to an equivalent point, an individual ONLY raiding will still out gear them in that relevant period of time.

But doing all forms of content (M+, PvP, raiding) and you will out gear anyone. Having a lot of RNG involved with getting gear is stupid if there’s very LIMITED ways to get gear. If you add a large avenue of ventures to acquire gear, it balances out across 3 raid difficulties, M+ and its weekly reward, and PvP with its weekly reward, not to mention warfronts every now and then along with world bosses and now the invasions.

These methods of gearing existed in the last expansion (for the most part) and they’re not toxic to the games development at all. At the end of the day, you’re only caring about a number and how high you can get it. People could care less how easy it is for others to get gear, as long as they fulfill 3 itches that seem to be prevalent:

In your case and that of many others, feeling superior to others. You want to feel accomplished, disregarding achievements and titles. You want better gear to mean you are better and you want it to show. As long as your gear is better, you could care less what everyone else gets, as long as it’s not as good as yours without putting in the same amount of effort.

Second group: people that care about their gear, but also the gear of others because they want to be efficient. They don’t want to be stuck doing their weekly AOTC clear dead weighting on every boss. They want to melt through everything and move on to the next point of interest. Efficiency is the name of the game.

And finally, people who don’t care. They could care less if you’re better geared, they’re better geared, or if they suck. They just want to play the game.

There was a time when you could flex on people heavily; where having Warglaives and Shadowmourne allowed people to truly rise above and be noticed. That’s done and over. Exclusive gear that takes months on end to obtain is not the business model anymore.

Better get used to it.

2 Likes
534

No, you don’t. That’s why most raiders are also doing Mythic+, especially at the start of the tier. Raiding is not competitive with other forms of gearing. It’s actually one of the slowest. Weekly lockout, very few drops. And with master looter removed, there’s a very high chance that half the drops a raid does get won’t even get used.

Only until this new dev team “moves on to exciting new opportunities” or whatever euphemism they use.

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535

Well…then you haven’t really been paying attention. Yeah, I get it that people change and grow older. That doesn’t excuse the bad decisions that are being made. The choices the devs have decided to make and the feedback they have decided to ignore have led to people moving on to other games.

Then the dev team better get another mount ready for the store to cover sub losses. This current model just isn’t working and is more frustrating and boring then fun and engaging.

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536

Uh, yes, you do. You clear an entire raid and what’s your average gear acquired across several boss for the time investment you’re committing at that difficulty?

1-3 pieces maybe. You’re more than likely going to get 1 piece of gear. If you’re clearing it on heroic, you’re already doing what’s equivalent to clearing a +10. Even the weekly (a single piece of 380 gear since they removed azerite) is still lower than mythic, especially for what the loot funnel the OP is talking about with the first 2 bosses.

Trying to say that raiding is not competitive with the other forms of content when it’s literally the only way of getting guaranteed 370-385 gear on farm is delusional.

You of all people shouldn’t be talking about “competitive” gear from M+. If half of the gear you’re wearing right now was from M+, your argument would have merit. But over 90% of the gear your wearing comes from the raid. Want to take a guess how long it would take for you to get to an equivalent item level doing M+?

And farming M+, waiting for that warforge/titanforge, especially since you’re, you know, ALSO not guaranteed to get loot at the end of a M+, waiting for the weekly lockout to get your chest that still drops lower item level gear than mythic Uldir, I mean it goes on.

I guess your guild never really “funneled” to you, did they? Even this late in the tier, they should at least still care about their tank. Give some scraps from the table, and what not.

3 Likes
537

Only a handful of guilds are clearing the raid tier the first couple weeks. The other 99% of Mythic raiding guilds are working through the content over weeks and months. Less than a hundred clear it the first month. That’s how it’s designed. If you’re just an armchair raider who only reads the headlines on mmo-champ or wowhead, I can understand how you’d miss that, and think tons of guilds are clearing it the first few weeks. But the vast majority of people who are doing Mythic progression raiding know that the reality is different.

You always gear tanks last.

Always.

Also, I’m the GM, so if I had a problem with that, I could have it changed. But I don’t, because gearing tanks is dumb.

As GM and the person who supervises the gear distribution (as FUBAR as it is, these days), I’m well aware of how many upgrades people are getting. And they’re few and far between. The removal of master looter, and restrictions on trading, mean that most drops don’t go to the people who can get the most out of them, and are wasted, instead.

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538

gear is gear, as long as it goes to someone your raid becomes stronger. This is why they are intent on making ilvl king in order to make sure that nobody needs to trade an item that is an ilvl upgrade and in most cases you don’t.

539

Really…if you think you’re so awesome because you’re raiding mythic - do it in white gear…after all you and others complaining about ‘casuals’ are really just saying that you are better than everyone else and deserve a snowflake title.

So, if you want to do the hardest stuff…do it in iron man…white only gear…or quit complaining about other peoples gear score and how they go it.

Ok, grumpy dwarf mode off…

-YGBB

540

They’ve been promising that for years. Yet they still haven’t pulled it off. A vers/mast piece for me is still superior to a crit/haste piece 15 ilvls higher. Many other specs have similar problems.

Blizzard COULD fix this easily, but they’re more devoted to pruning than they are to fun gameplay and making stats viable. (Crit used to be a great stat for me because of a passive trait that gave us more rage on crits. But that passive was removed because of ability pruning… as if passives somehow contributed to button bloat…)

541

To OP,

Im a Heroic raider, and only killed 2/8 mythic because the first 2 mythic bosses are arguably easier than heroic Ghuun oddly. Im currently at 385, like you mentioned.

That being said, I agree that its odd that I have the ilvl of a Mythic raider. I feel that gear should not be abke to “forge” higher than 10 ilvls. Then, a mythic piece will always be at least 5 ilvl higher than a heroic piece-> so we still get the “fun” of cool boosted drops, without Mythic raiders feeling like they are waisting their time.

Maybe change Mythic+ to only give a max Ilvl of 380, so its not basically a free Mythic raid piece every week for Heroic raiders.

2 Likes
546

Honestly with the aging player base I really see a swing away from raiding content . Hell I can hardly get a 5 man done but I only play the game on the weekends . I have 0 desire to raid been there done that spent WAY too much time on pixels instead of life . Not to mention my hips cant take all the sitting needed to do it. I ask the question. If I play less than you but pay the same amount do I deserve unobtainable gear ?

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547

Exactly, … and if it wasn’t I wouldn’t be here!

Ask yourself OP, what are you going to do with that gear? world quests? lol , run islands? LOL, faceroll LFR? haha LOL

You see my point here? that gear you have is good enough to down mythic bosses there is nothing after that until you have to do it all over again next raid … you’re wasting time and looks to me like you aren’t enjoying it!

WoW = casual … do casual stuff, take it easy, have fun, enjoy yourself and the game because to be honest … nobody cares about your gear but you!

548

Nope. Something scaling up to one-shot range for all of its abilities doesn’t make it more difficult than content that requires 20 players to perfectly execute mechanics.

If that’s all it took for things to be extreme,y difficult then Blizzard wouldn’t have to create any boss mechanics and they could just give you a damage sponge with a massive health pool and then call it “difficult”.

I don’t even know what kind of point you’re trying to make with this “people could do it no voice” because “it’s a 5 man” and “they know what is going on”.

That’s like saying a group of 20 Mythic raiders could no voice kill Mythic Zul because they’ve all done it before and know what is going on stuff.

They wouldn’t. They’d wipe frequently and maybe even as early as Mother because you just don’t kill Mythic bosses without the group on the same page and communicating.

Finally, you’re either purposely missing my point or you just don’t understand what we’re talking about.

Nobody started off talking about how hard a +20 is because that’s not the point.

The point is that a +10 CAN be smashed and completed without any voice or coordination. A 10 is all you have to do to get the max reward so for the purpose of this discussion, that is the max difficulty of M+ because that is where rewards max out.

You can overgear a 10 so much that you can carry 1 or even 2 people through them.

The equivalent in a Mythic raid would be trying to carry 4-8 people.

You’d struggle to kill Taloc if 8 out of 20 people were hard carries even if everybody else in the raid was 390 ilevel but you can do a +10 with 40% dead weight if you overgear it.

Nobody is talking about difficulties above 10 except people like you who are trying to make the weak argument that infinitely scaling health and damage up to a point that something becomes impossible somehow makes it “harder”. It doesn’t.

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