Look, I have yet to see someone clearly state why they think 1.12 is better. On the other hand, I have seen many people handwaving what folks like myself have given as reasons why we feel the older versions are better. In a nutshell all elements of the BG were utilized because a) it gave more in-depth gameplay, b) they were all but required rather than optional, and despite someone posting a PS video: c) could not be zergged. You could make quite decent advancement of honor and rep just playing a period of time in the BG, there was no requirement to be there from start to finish. You were âpart of a larger conflictâ as the devs first envisioned. It was a much more complex gameplay with all of the elements working in concert: which towers were taken, which GYs were taken, what turnins were completed, wolves/rams tamed or killed for saddles, summoning the elemental gods to help push bases. That stuff was RARELY optional in the early versions.
When asked why 1.12 is better to some, I read responses like âbetter for people trying for Rank 14â and âdonât want to play for days to get to the endâ. Neither of which is an answer to what makes the actual gameplay of the version better. It smacks of a fundamental difference between those wanting compelling gameplay versus those just suffering through something so they can get the reward.
If you had actually played from 1.5 to 1.12 you would have witnessed less pvp as the nerfs added up.
You honestly have to be the worst person to be apart of a side of an argument. Honestly, you donât help your side by doing what youâre doing, you make the whole group look bad.
And here is why,
Yes you have, I have even read those replies to you and watch you just mock the people who say why they like it and you respond with something to the effect of âGo back to BfA thenâ or âYou just want gear you donât like the bg anywayâ. I even gave a little example of why I prefer it and you responded to it⌠jesus man. You are being openly disingeous about every single statement you make on this subject, and Iâm just letting you know⌠it isnât helping your side at all. It just makes you guys look like whiners who will say anything to get their way. Letâs see what other lies you have to say.
Subjective opinion, but that is your opinion which is fine.
Wait⌠if the gameplay is required and not optional then how does it make it more in-depth? Do you understand that these points contradict each other? Having the option to play a different type of strategy to win the game gives it more depth, running a bg the same way everytime because itâs required has no depth.
Ahhh theres a lie. See you canât say stuff like this man, it discredits everything you say. You could say, âItâs harder to zergâ and you would be correct and we could have a nice discussion. But when you make statements like this, you arenât up for discussion. You are just here to push your bg and lie all you can to make it sound like itâs the best.
Again a subjective opinion.
Another subjective opinion⌠you do realize that these elements of the bg are in the 1.12âŚ
You do understand that every single argument you had for your version can be pinned to the 1.12 side of the argument as well, with the added piece of âit didnât take as longâ. So it has all the same strategies and such as the earlier version but it didnât take as long. What is so hard to grasp from that?
It wont completely destroy the game as there are a ton of other features to look forward to.
However AV was a PvPvE instance that served as almost like a final battle zone between the horde and alliance. It wasnât even accessible until level 50 and so it was exactly thatâŚ
It is supposed to be a long war, it is supposed to limit the ability for a team to just go in and zerg for a win. In 1.5 it was FAR less likely to accomplish⌠even premade groups for it would struggle vs the npcs if only 15 of the opposite faction would respond and defend.
@OP. You overestimate the percentage of Classic players that will primarily play AV, or PvP in general. PvP has never, isnât now, and will never be for the majority of the player base. This has always been a PvE game that also has PvP. That will never change.
Major difference: I will already know they will be making decisions that I am aware of the results of. A tourist doesnât know what they were missing.
Another major difference: the vast majority of tourists will likely be those who are already playing retail and will not have to spend anything additional to play classic. I on the other hand have to decide if classic and classic alone is worth paying for.
Good christ, why did I waste the time typing that all up.
I donât plan on raiding (not enough time) and I canât do some massive honor grind. But I hope to be able to hop in AV for a few hours a night. This will likely be my main end game - unless it turns into two zergs running past each other.
What do you mean? I agree with basically everything said there. You have a hard time accepting that I can want something but not agree with other peopleâs reasoning for wanting the same thing, donât you?
If you claim that 1.12 AV will always be a zerg and 1.5 AV will never be a zerg, I will disagree.
If you claim 1.12 AV is virtually identical to retail AV, oh boy am I ever gonna disagree. They donât even function in close to the same manner. For one, retail AV has scaling NPCâs.
If you claim 1.12 AV was created with a BfA mindset; 12 years before BfA launched, Iâm going to disagree.
If you claim 1.12 AV is less authentic than 1.5 AV⌠in patch 1.12, Iâm going to disagree. However, I donât necessarily place authenticity before all else, which is why I want them to restore AV to its complete state. I want the entire cast of NPCâs in their original power and if possible, the old map with landmines and shredders to make a return.
If you claim that private servers created an authentic 1.5 AV, I will disagree and post proof that they created a custom version.
If you claim that Blizzard is lying about not having the 1.5 data, despite everything theyâve said and their explanations for not having it, I will disagree.
If you claim to want a completely authentic experience and you want Blizzard to throw darts while blindfolded in an attempt to create an authentic 1.5 AV, I will call out that hypocrisy.
I want the full-fledged AV experience, I wonât indulge with players that feel the same way and make arguments in bad faith.
Scaling based on what, individual players battling them or AV brackets?
I never made that claim. What I have stated is that changes made to the BG were very much motivated by the same type of catering to those that led the game down the road to BFA. ei: attempting to cast too wide a net and therefore watering down the experience.
I posted a link to the original web page for the BG. If you choose to not read that as the âauthenticâ AV, then 1.12 is arguably not that.
I never made that claim. In fact I laughed when those who were using the video as evidence of 1.5 being zerged turned out to be posting an Elysium video.
I care not if they have it or not. I do however expect that if I am going to spend the same amount as retail players have been paying, I expect the same effort put into (re)development of this old content. âoops, we donât have that dataâ does not cut it. I am not asking for constant retail-like development. It is not unreasonable to expect at the very least for effort to be put into recreating something like old AV. However the blue OP made it sound more like a conscious choice to have it less âhardâ and less âgrossâ than the early versions.
The developers of AV 1.5 were not killed and sealed in a pyramid and their development notes destroyed lest the secrets be discovered and a curse be placed upon those who disturb their tomb. If you do not know what went into OG AV, ASK THEM
I wasnât referring to you in particular. Iâve seen these posts come up and Iâve argued against them and you probably see that and take that as me being against earlier AV design. I should have said âif someone claimsâ, woops.
Mega troll post. Nobody made you go to Ashran. You went there, yourself. If you didnât like doing, donât do it. You had like three different gearing sources. Thatâs like saying I am forced to raid right now, because it has good gear. Iâm 410 and havenât stepped into Normal or Heroic Dazarâalor. Try again.
And you saying that people just avoided each other? Blatant lie. Try again. That basically never happened. But you would know that if you played Ashran.
This is inaccurate. The majority of the playerbase avoids rated PvP. Casual PvP is where the playerbase is. Thatâs like saying that because 90% of the population doesnât Mythic raid, that means nobody does PvE.
Most people donât care to push the top tier. Theyâre here for a good time, and usually that consists of just going in and having fun, not pushing the min/max.
BGs are super popular, even in Retail. Go queue now and see how fast your queue is.
You donât have to stay til the end. Just go in and have fun. Thatâs what PvP was always meant to be. Thatâs what WoW was meant to be. Turning AV into some zerg rush isnât PvP or fun. Thatâs not my âsubjective opinionâ, thatâs objectively factual. AV has been dead for over a decade because they changed it. In Retail it has only just now become something people do for fun again, because they buffed the NPCs.
![:man_shrugging:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/man_shrugging.png?v=6" ":man_shrugging:")
1.12 is arguably not that.