Feedback: Priests

Voidform and Dark Ascension

In the latest talent tree update for Priests, we received a new 2 minute cooldown as Shadow Priests: Dark Ascension. The awkward part is not necessarily how that cooldown works, but moreover that it is coexisting with a nerfed version of Voidform and Void Eruption. The current tree allows us to choose both Dark Ascension and Void Eruption at the same time, giving the player three 2-minute cooldowns if also talented into Power Infusion on top of the baseline 3-minute Shadowfiend. On top of this cooldown overload that is possible in this tree these cooldowns co-existing do not meld well together, especially due to the nerfed version of Void Eruption and Voidform found in this build. In this post I want to go over problems with the current design of Void Eruption and Voidform, Dark Ascension, and how the talent tree offers them up as cooldowns.

Starting with Void Eruption it was nerfed in this build with the following changes:

  • Void Eruption – Cooldown increased to 2 minutes (was 90 seconds).
  • Void Bolt – Cooldown increased to 9 seconds and damage increased by 23% (was 4.5 seconds).
  • Hungering Void – Debuff duration increased to 12 seconds (was 6 seconds). Damage over time extension increased to 2 seconds and 4 seconds on critical strikes (was 1 second and 2 seconds).

With these changes in mind it begs the question of, what is Voidform and Void Eruption’s purpose with all the other changes in the tree? Voidform’s design has changed drastically over the last few expansions, and it looks like Dragonflight will be no exception. This iteration has certainly caused the cooldown to not feel core to the spec with the addition of a new spec cooldown, but the Void Bolt nerf also removes one of the last mainstays of the cooldown. The value of Voidform has been primarily granting you full benefit of your Mastery and access to Void Bolt. It also increases the overall damage done by 20% (replacing Shadowform’s 10%) but since this does not impact gameplay we’ll ignore this for now. After the nerf to Void Bolt, it is no longer a tool used to sustain your damage over time effects on a group of targets. The cooldown was doubled but no change was made to its ability to extend your DoTs. These nerfs leave only one primary purpose of Voidform left: Mastery activation. While this is a powerful tool, it calls into question why this cooldown exists and what Blizzard’s goals are for the Void-style of Shadow Priest going into Dragonflight and beyond.

As a player that primarily started playing Shadow Priest in Legion, I am a little saddened by the state of Voidform. When the Legion rework was announced I immediately fell in love with the spec and have been maining it ever since. Over the years so many changes have altered Voidform to the point where it is hardly recognizable to what we had in Legion. I am intrigued by the modernized version of older Shadow talents coming in Dragonflight but at the same time I would like Voidform and Void Eruption to also be updated to still have a fun place in the upcoming expansion. While it might be difficult to combine the two playstyles together, I think the redesigned talent trees are the perfect opportunity to offer two distinct playstyles and the ability to specialize. The Voidform playstyle might not be for everyone, but with these new talent trees players can pick the playstyle that works for what they want. Whether or not future iterations allow for you to pick Void Eruption with Dark Ascension or not, here are just a few suggestions that could make Void Eruption and Voidform feel better and make it more fun:

  • Hungering Void and Surrender to Madness as upgrade points to Void Eruption feel mostly lackluster with the changes to Void Bolt and nerfs to their cooldowns. Removing or reworking these into the base spell would open up these nodes for new options.
  • Void Torrent extending Voidform
    • Recreates the Legion style where Void Torrent “paused” your Voidform drain
  • Rethinking what an Insanity drain style could mean in the current version of the game. Insanity drain is a complex mechanic but it did offer a great skill expression and was a lot of fun to play with ramping haste and DoT damage in Voidform.
    • Now that Voidform is not “required” this is the perfect opportunity to rework this into a better version of Voidform that fits in the game without scaling out of control
  • Rework Surrender to Madness as an optional talent from Void Eruption to enhance the base Voidform with modern ramping mechanics.Ravenous Frenzy did this for Balance Druids in Shadowlands and something similar could work with Voidform. This could give players an option to talent into a playstyle similar to Legion Voidform without it being the only way to experience Voidform Shadow Priest.

Moving on to Dark Ascension, this cooldown feels quite strange next to Void Eruption and Voidform. Aside from numbers and tuning, the idea of buffing non-periodic spells during the cooldown is an interesting idea but the playstyle and build up ends up feeling awkward at times, especially if you are able to take this AND Void Eruption at the same time. After playing with these cooldowns together and separately, I think changing the tree and trimming down on nodes to allow for a choice between Void Eruption OR Dark Ascension would be healthier for the spec. If the cooldowns exist in a world where you can only get one or the other, the talent tree can focus its time on ways to empower those specific playstyles more, giving players the choice of what they want for each scenario. The way the tree is currently laid out, these cooldowns exist on off branches in the tree and not centralized in the tree like previous iterations, making pathing feel awkward and inelegant.

If the pathing and choices between these two cooldowns could be addressed we could more easily focus our builds in the two distinct styles those cooldowns can give Shadow Priests, without trying to mash two playstyles together that do not fit well together. This would allow each cooldown to offer something different for the Priest depending on the situation, whether thats ST vs. AoE, Sustain vs. Burst, or even Periodic vs. Non-Periodic damage styles.

Having two cooldowns to choose from without getting both at once can potentially give Shadow Priests two fun play styles to choose from depending on what the player wants. This level of meaningful choice has a lot of potential and I’m excited to see where the tree evolves from here.

22 Likes

I think its been said a few times at this point but returning to the current issues with how voidform and surrender to madness feel, both thematically and historically something like ravenous frenzy on live feels like a good solution. The idea of both surrender to madness and voidform are tapping into this unknown, uncontrollable power, feeling yourself lose control as it becomes more and more hectic the longer you tap into this power, until you have to give it up or risk being overwhelmed.
While I agree it shouldn’t necessarily be something core to the spec anymore, and more of a optional path to take, just throwing it is as a % damage boost cd with 1 new cast during just cant do it justice

3 Likes

Overall, the recent talent rework seems good (particularly, Lightweaver is a great compromise, holding over some of the fun and power from Flash Concentration without turning the whole game into a maintenance buff - and Inspiration returning combined with a talent for extra crit to proc it? Yes please!). However, as a longtime Priest fan, there are three things that bother me:

  • Why has Shining Force been removed? It’s an excellent spell with a good skill ceiling on its use. Please bring it back.
  • Translucent Image vs Phantasm is, in principle, an interesting choice. Damage reduction vs. removing movement impairing effects is a good tension, I like it. 5% DR is too low to ever consider taking Translucent Image, though; it’s not enough to make the difference between living and dying so I can’t see myself ever taking it over Phantasm. Please return TI to 10% to make this a real choice.
  • Holy and Disc are the only two specs in the game without access to an interrupt. I don’t care if it’s on a 1min cooldown, please just give us something, like you have all the other healers.
7 Likes

Now that Voidform has been largely sidelined, I would love to see a controlled return of the Legion style Voidform and Surrender to Madness, with that very fast paced and incredibly punishing gameplay.

I have already discussed in depth in another post a while ago how I think that would have to be balanced to not overtake other Shadow Priest playstyles, but it would be amazing if people could opt into that old playstyle. I don’t mean to underplay how problematic old voidform was, but I think these can be overcome in ways that don’t diminish the fun of it greatly.

There are some puzzles that would need to be solved, such as how to make use of Insanity spenders like Devouring Plague. Maybe in voidform they are free but have a cooldown, or maybe some better solution exists.

Regardless, I do think there is a world where a balanced Legion style voidform exists in the DF Shadow Priest tree that is challenging, engaging, and fun without overshadowing other playstyles in the tree. Even if the majority of players prefer non-voidform, such a goal I think is worth striving to achieve for the sake of the minority and playstyle diversity.

5 Likes

DP is currently bugged and spawning shadowy apparitions with every tick instead of just on cast so the insanity generation feels higher than it should. We definitely do not need less insanity generation. In AoE situations I think insanity gen is too low with the loss of insanity generation on mind sear.

After playing with the new talents over the last few days I wanted to make a post to list the points of feedback that are a bit less involved but still important to discuss. I’ve tried to separate these into sections to make it easier to digest.

Good Things

  • Choice between Auspicious Spirits and Tormented Spirits feels good, especially if Yogg-Saron is updated to work more from the Spiteful Apparition generation.
  • I like that Mind Sear is not something you will be spamming in AoE, but rather something you press as you fill up your Insanity
  • Mental Fortitude working with Devouring Plague and Vampiric Touch is awesome
  • Removal of Sanguine Teachings is very much appreciated :slight_smile:
  • Dark Ascension giving us the Shadow wings again is a great thing to see back
  • Getting access to Halo and Divine Star again is exciting thematically, although I wish Cascade was also brought back
  • Allowing Shadow Priests to cast Holy spells in our talent tree in Shadowform makes that side of the talent tree much more accessible
  • Devouring Plague currently is (incorrectly) spawning Spiteful Apparitions on tick. This is clearly unintended but is a lot of fun and makes Spiteful Apparitions value on spread targets much higher.
  • Moving Void Eruption and Dark Ascension to 2 minute cooldowns is nice that it lines up better with Power Infusion and Mindbender.
  • Surge of Darkness procs of Mind Spike with Psychic Link is a great way to boost our spread cleave.

Class Talents

  • Holy Nova’s position in the tree makes it kind of awkward as a Shadow Priest if you would like to go down the left side of the tree. Holy Nova’s damage is not something we would like but to go from the middle of the tree out towards the left if you want something like Spell Warding makes it feel like it is in the way.
  • Vault of the Heavens coming back as a talent choice between Leap of Faith or even Move with Grace would be a much loved addition to the class tree.
  • Sheer Terror and Apathy do not seem exciting enough or good enough to pick for most cases, would prefer this was replaced with other utility spells that are missing from our Talent tree but that we have had in the past.
    • Mind Bomb (stun edition please!)
    • Spectral Guise
    • Shining Force
    • Power Word: Barrier
    • Door of Shadows
  • It is exciting to see Void Tendrils return but I’m concerned about how useful it will be with its lowered target cap and low radius. With a radius of 8 yards the target cap seems excessively restrictive.
  • Speaking on behalf of all priest specializations we would like to have a new spell added to our talent tree such as Shadow Word: Scream that is simply a 24 second interrupt. This would allow all Priests to get a kick, and then it could be augmented/upgraded by the Shadow Tree to Silence. This would free up a point that Shadow will feel obligated to take without losing damage as well as giving the option to all specs.
  • Vampiric Embrace being moved to the class tree is nice, but it still working as a Smart Heal still has challenges in large groups and I would prefer if it was reworked similar to Ancestral Guidance or be even more unique and be a leech buff or something else entirely.
  • Translucent Image applying for the duration of Fade is a nice change, but this only being 5% instead of 10% reduces the value it gives. Priests have quite a lot of tools (especially Shadow) at handling damage over time, but the issue we needed Fade DR for is burst damage. Nerfing this but increasing the duration actually is the opposite of what we wanted out of this talent.
  • Getting access to Body and Soul and Angelic Feather is nice for movement, but in order to take Angelic Feather we need to take either Holy Nova, Move with Grace, or Body and Soul to get to it. Before when this was a choice node it felt cleaner. Although I certainly appreciate getting more movement, locking it behind previous nodes that are unrelated or double up on movement creates friction with our choices.
  • Death and Madness rework is definitely interesting since it has more uses on a single target, but feels awkward in multi-target scenarios. The skill involved with sniping targets with Shadow Word: Death and getting constant resets seems to have mostly gone away, as just getting that Insanity and only 1 reset regardless of targets seems to take away part of the fun of this talent. If the cooldown was per target based I could see this iteration being more fun, but otherwise I think I preferred the previous iteration

Dark Ascension

  • Dark Ascension having a cast time feels quite bad to press considering all it is giving us is a buff, unlike Void Eruption which does have initial damage. This feels even worse if you are able to talent into these cooldowns at the same time where chaining them together is a lot of casting time.
  • Dark Ascension requiring and consuming Dark Evangelism stacks feels more punishing than it should. On pull you are incentivized to fully channel Mind Flay to get enough stacks. The stacks in themselves do not seem to be that meaningful except to allow you to cast your cooldown. In addition as you cast Dark Ascension, losing these stacks creates a weird loop where you could want to channel Mind Flay AGAIN inside of Dark Ascension to re-stack Dark Evangelism. Would prefer if the stacks were not consumed and/or pressing Dark Ascension did not require stacks and just gave you full stacks if used.

Shadowfiend and Mindbender

  • Shadowfiend is incredibly underwhelming, especially for Shadow as a 3m CD
  • Mindbender is better, but still not exciting without further talenting into augments to make it a playstyle change
  • Choosing to buff Shadowfiend vs. Buffing our other core spells in the bottom section of our spec tree does not feel great
  • Shadowflame Prism
    • While this certainly shores up some concerns about Shadowfiend/Mindbender excitement the playstyle is still somewhat invasive. I think this need to be further iterated on and potentially updated in order to feel fun in the tree
    • Potentially make it the Idol of Y’Shaarj instead?
    • Uncapping its AoE would make it instantly better as it becomes a dungeon defining playstyle choice.
    • Adding pathing in front/after this around Shadow Word: Death and Mind Blast cooldowns to further enhance this playstyle would be more fun in addition to the spells buffing Shadowfiend
    • Adding Mindbender as a required path before this makes sense, but having to use a point on Mindbender just to get Shadowfiend to be more useful does not feel as fun. Would rather Mindbender just be baseline to cut down on these points entirely

Old God Idol Spells

  • N’Zoth
    • Needs bad luck protection to make it less punishing and easier to use and get value from. Options could be any of the following:
      • Stacks move to a target when they die
      • Stacks explode instantly when the target dies
      • One mob detonating causes others to chain detonate
      • Have some other ability that can force detonate stacks (mind spike?)
  • Yogg-Saron
    • The pet often comes up when you aren’t in cooldowns, and saving cooldowns for the spec is not fun gameplay
    • You can spawn the pet faster in AoE, which you would think is a strong suit but it just casts a single target bolt so it doesn’t scale well.
    • Right now stacks are generated when you CAST a spell that generates apparitions, rather than one stack per apparition generated like the tooltip suggests.
    • If the pet was permanent and each apparition gave it a stacking temporary buff it could be better for scaling
  • C’Thun
    • Proc rate in general feels lack luster, especially with low haste levels
    • The Mind Sear tendril doesn’t make as much sense as Mind Sear is no longer a filler spell and we cast it much less. Increasing the proc rate heavily for this or putting it on some other spell would make it better
  • Y’Shaarj
    • Generally speaking this isn’t something we will play around in PvE, it’s just a passive buff to our shadowfiend.
    • Since you can’t take this with Mindbender it attaching to a 3m cooldown Shadowfiend feels even more underwhelming, even with the talent that reduces its CD. Having it be a choice node with Mindbender does not feel rewarding
    • The buffs are not good enough to hold your cooldown for, so it’s kind of just “neat” when it happens which is a bit underwhelming. Some of it sounds like it could be fun for specific PvP scenarios but its harder to come up with those in PvE

Shadow Talents

  • Shadow Priest right now feels like it has quite a lot of active buttons in its rotation with a full set of talents. Would like to see certain active talents be reigned in to make the spec feel more focused.
    • Shadow Mend getting added as a 15s cooldown means we now need to ALSO bind Flash Heal if we need to heal ourselves back up
  • Aside from Idol of Y’Shaarj the other idols seem to be randomly placed at the bottom of the tree and the choices do not seem to make a lot of sense. This is also made worse by every talent in the 9th row requiring 2 points. This leads to incoherent pathing and the bottom of our tree feeling chaotic when trying to finish your build.
  • Vampiric Insight granting an extra charge of Mind Blast baseline feels fantastic, and I was quite sad to see this announced as going away in the blue post. Having 2 charges of Mind Blast makes it feel infinitely better as it provides a buffer window where you do not get punished for using Mind Blast the very second it comes off cooldown. I would rather this stay in the game but to compensate for the extra charge added with Voidform removed, that way you have 2 charges throughout the spec regardless of cooldowns.
    • Also would really like for Vampiric Insight to give us the temporary charge like Dark Thoughts did. This would mean if you get a proc mid-cast of a Mind Blast it would not get consumed.
  • Mind Sear’s rework
    • Currently this requires non-GCD aligned canceling which requires an addon or a weak aura to show you the optimal times to cancel if you need to. If it was changed to a 0.75 second base tick time this problem should be solved.
    • Derangement is also a bit awkward since it is not a damage increase per Insanity but just saving you time. Would feel much better if it was just a flat damage increase on Mind Sear.
    • Mind Sear is also considerably worse than Devouring Plague as a spender since it does not trigger Spiteful Apparitions, leading to awkward target cutoffs if/when it is better than Devouring Plague
  • Shadow as a spec has been given quite a lot of buffs and procs to maintain and keep up with in this latest rework. It feels like some of these could be combined, removed, or altered to make the spec feel less chaotic. Only one of the below list were active in Shadowlands so this is a massive change in reactive gameplay compared to live.
    • Vampiric Insight (Vampiric Touch ticks proc Mind Blast)
    • Surge of Darkness (Vampiric Touch/Devouring Plague proc Mind Spike)
    • Mind Melt (Mind Spike can proc Mind Blast)
      • Feels like this is just a reskinned Vampiric Insight, why not just make Mind Spike casts have a direct chance to proc a Vampiric Insight? (Note adding this to VI might make us want VI to stack to be cleaner?)
    • Piercing Shadows
      • In general this feels like a filler talent that we will not interact with. Considering our talent tree already feels like we have more nodes than we need I would prefer to see this removed.
    • Dark Evangelism (Mind Flay maintenance buff)
    • Mind Devourer (Mind Blast procs DP)
    • Mind Spike procs crit increase on Mind Blast
  • Mind Spike
    • Is this meant to be pressed outside of Surge of Darkness procs? If so, why/when is not clear.
    • If the answer to the above is Dark Ascension i wish it was changed to not be so punishing against our Mastery and Insanity spent on Devouring Plague as a DoT.
    • I like the idea of it replacing Mind Flay as our filler during Dark Ascension, but not if it removes DoTs, especially Devouring Plague.
  • Shadow Crash
    • Feels great that this also applies Shadow Word: Pain when talented into Misery
    • The 4-target cap on dot applications seems a bit lower than I’d like. Adding anywhere from 1-4 extra would make this feel so much better.
  • Dark Void
    • Feels much worse than Misery, especially when talented into Shadow Crash with it
    • Because this has a cast time, I think it should give uncapped SW:P application to compete with the above combination, even if this means the Insanity generation needs to be removed to compensate.
    • Making the cooldown lower so there is not such a stark difference in SW:P duration and Dark Void cooldown would go a long way, even if it was just to add haste scaling to the cooldown.
  • The talent tree rework still does not provide a reason a group would be happy to add a Shadow Priest if they already have a Holy/Discipline Priest. Giving Shadow something unique would go a long way to make the spec more attractive to groups, especially pugs.
  • Mental Decay is nice, but would feel much better if this was not attached to our filler channel but rather something like Spiteful Apparitions.
  • List of talents that currently feel out of place with the design of Shadow:
    • Mind Flay: Insanity
      • Very little downtime in our rotation
      • Buffing a filler spell often feels like the opposite of what we want our talents to do.
    • Void Torrent
      • Could enhance Voidform or work with Dark Evangelism or other talents that buff Mind Flay
    • Piercing Shadows
      • Actually does not change anything, we have enough nodes as it is don’t like this as a node
    • Lunacy
      • Reducing the Insanity cost on our spenders is a weird talent to go against an idol. Feels more like filler rather than an ending node
    • Painbreaker Psalm
      • While it is around other talents that interact with Shadow Word: Death this talent in general goes directly against our Mastery and causes us to re-dot more and generally feels like an anti-playstyle.
  • Hallucinations and Tithe Evasions seem like they would make more sense on the class tree.
  • I was quite sad to see that Twist of Fate was nerfed back down to 10%. This nerf makes it among the worst execute in the game. This used to be a specialty of Shadow Priests and I would prefer it go back to 20% but have other things be adjusted accordingly. Execute being a core benefit that Shadow brings is less meaningful if it is just 10%.
20 Likes

I am wary of Twins of the Sun Priestess being available to Shadow. I expect this to mean Shadow Priest will be balanced around it, as in Shadow Priest might be effectively donating some of their damage throughput to another player, which might not be very fun. Obviously the problem doesn’t exist for healers.

This would make Shadow’s viability more dependent on tuning, especially in raids. I expect Power Word: Fortitude to be brought already by a healer. This I think is preferable over the above problem, and many other DPS face the same issue anyway.

3 Likes

They should combine Void Torrent and Mind Flay: Insanity.

4 Likes

Another Holy Priest main here.

Overall… I am very pleased with the magnitude of changes made as well as the feedback we have received recently… it is very welcome and look forward to further iteration.

In Shadowlands, particularly after we obtained our Tier set, it seemed like our core mechanic and primary healing spell had been dialed up to 11 and, while it gave us something of a niche, it also limited the number of useful spells; it was powerful, but in my opinion it was not fun. It is nice to see that efforts are being made to make Prayer of Healing more useful through interactions with other parts of our kit though there are still a number of items that do not interact. There’s still that looming Converted Followers talent, which I personally suspect (and hope) has something to do with Fae Guardians, seeing as how Holy Paladin, Mistweaver Monk, Restoration Druid, and Restoration Shaman all have access to their Night Fae Covenant ability, but with Priest the spell “can’t” work as-is because Power Word: Shield gains a cooldown so the ability would have to be redesigned (if that is what it is).

It does seem as though there’s an effort to make Holy Words occur less frequently and have them have meaning (where previously they were there to “simply” proc Resonant Words to boost Heal). That said there are few effects that are really tied to them in the latest tree. Cosmic Ripple and Resonant Words, and Divine Word are it. Divine Word is fun because it gives us choice when we push that button. Like current Resonant Word + Divine Conversation gameplay it is rewarding to cast a Holy Word and then have that affect other spells. Sanctified Words is a nice option, as well, but specific to Holy Word: Sanctify—I can’t Holy Word: Chastise into an empowered Prayer of Healing. While it is nice to see more play on spells between our Words and make it less about simply “how fast can we get our next Word…” it would be nice to see something like Divinity (+Healing after casting a Holy Word) make a return. Right now it seems very heavily about Renew.

Overall I like having a lot of buttons. Lots and lots of buttons. It does seem like some of my support options (Night Fae best Play) are gone and I’ll miss that… though maybe only until an NYI goes away… . :thinking:

Defense

It’s wonderful to [have the goal to] be able to press Power Word: Shield again and have it be consistently useful, but I do agree with others that it could use a bit more oomph, particularly in the absense of other defensives. While we do have access to 2 ranks of Focused Will this only activates when we take physical melee hits: great in PvP… not so much in Mythic+.

There’re some peculiar interactions with Angelic Bulwark which might make it pretty solid, but I’ve got those observations noted under ‘Bugs’ because they do seem peculiar.

Concerns

  • Translucent Image at 5% is … a bit underwhelming, particularly compared to Masochism
  • Light’s Inspiration does not really feel like a near-capstone talent. Either it or Crystalline Reflection are required to get Angelic Bulwark. Personally, I’d rather increase the health bonus of Desperate Prayer and not the amount it heals: in an M+ I’m hoping to have the health to survive a hit, healing the damage afterward is not really an issue, and if it is, Holy Word: Life will be there

Interrupt

Echoing numerous comments and observations, I’m guessing it was a bit of an oversight that only 2 specs do not have access to an interrupt. Given the magnitude of changes that occurred, this is understandable, but I do agree that for consistency we should have access to one, such as mentioned above where it is the 45 second version, with Shadow being able to enhance it further (and reduce its CD).

Utility

I do not feel that Void Shield is particularly compelling (for Holy), given Power Word: Shield’s duration. I can see the idea behind it, PW:S an incoming hit, and then refill the shield if there’s any remainder. Given we are a generalist and we seem to have bits of capability from other healers, I was surprised to see that Fear Ward did not make an appearance in the tree. This would not diminish the usefulness of Holy Ward in PvP, perhaps it could replace Fear Ward.

Choice

There are some wonderful options in the tree but hopefully there’s still more iteration coming for Holy before the trees are locked in. While there should be a concept of meaningful choice, some of the paths do seem a bit bewildering.

  • I need 2 ranks in Prayers of the Virtuous (7-stack PoM) to pick up Empyrean Blaze (30 second Holy Fire spam): this seems very odd. It’s at an alright level in the tree but the relationship seems bewildering

  • Miracle Worker vs. Divine Word … while it’s great to have Miracle Worker in the tree, I’m not so certain it’s capstone power. It’s not the PvP version that reduces the CD on Holy Word: Serenity: it simply allows for HW:Serenity to stack

  • Spirited Litany feels a bit weird. It will work well with Holy Word: Salvation… but we can already get Power Infusion (predictably) for a talent point with Twins of the Sun Priestess. Perhaps a more thematic (or additional, alternative) option would be a return of the legendary effect Alabaster Lady (PoM can proc Apotheosis for 8 sec)—particularly with the loss of Divine Conversation meaning that Holy Word: Salvation will occur less frequently than it does now and can also help (assuming it’s controlled pRNG) in scenarios where we’re looking for some throughput.

    • All of that being said either 2 points in Spirited Litany or Searing Light are required to access Divine Words, neither are truly compelling; I like proc Power Infusion, it was fun in Torghast, and yes, I’m sure there’ll be a PoM bounce counter to know when to expect PI
  • The choice between Angelic Feather and Body and Soul is an everlasting one, but still a choice… whereas now it may require selecting both in order to reach situational talents such as Shackle Undead

  • Echoing others… not seeing an option for Vault of the Heavens is a bit disappointing

Miscellaneous

  • Holy Nova without the second rank (echoing at 50% on 3 targets hit), and even with Rhapsody seems a bit weak

    • I’d love to use this spell and have it feel powerful, I still remember the Burning Crusade intro. Could it perhaps get the PW:S treatment and get a CD and just turbo-charge its power (and maybe even its range)?
  • Lightwell did not seem that strong to be the capstone of the “single-target” path. If it’s healing is distributed based on the number of targets present, maybe. It could also be that it might fit more thematically as a choice with Divine Words with Miracle Worker as the alternative to Lightweaver, though, again, Miracle Worker could use a bit of oomph

  • Curiously missing: Shining Force, while Void Tendrils is a nice option its range is a bit limited

Bugs

These were reported, but just in case…

  • Glyph of the Lightspawn currently does not work for Holy spec; gotta have a pretty Shadowfiend

  • Holy Word: Life does not proc Resonant Words; perhaps it’s not intended to interact with our kit, which is fine, but Holy Word has a meaning for Holy Priests. If the spell is not intended to be empowered by our kit, I would recommend renaming the spell to Power Word: Life

This one I’m not entirely sure is a bug. After numerous attempts to get Borr-Geth to hit me very hard, Angelic Bulwark seemed to proc early (granted we’re talking 30K hits). I had to bring up video replay multiple times because it never seemed as though my health dropped to 30%, and I’d have a shield and the debuff. Now perhaps this means it’s more powerful than realized in that instead of taking the majority of the damage the shield was applied first—or instead. When I gathered up a bunch of regular mobs to attack me it did proc around 30%. If this is intended to guard against one-shots once every 90 seconds: that’s great! If this is a bug… :frowning: .


Please remove Archbishop Benedictus’ Restitution from the Holy tree, or at the minimum please disable its effect in arena. It’s awful for the game to have this effect in an arena environment, and I don’t know any PvP Holy priest players who genuinely want to see it return. Especially not so far up in the tree where picking it comes at very little cost.

I disagree with removing the talent, but can see the need for disabling it in Arena IF we are given other defensive options. For Holy being made of paper and dying is part of our “identity” and Greater Fade has been removed in Dragonflight. :frowning:

Holy Word: Chastise will not be as oppressive going forward without Divine Conversation, the removal of Holy Oration from our tree, and the nerf to Light of the Naaru (down from 33% for 1pt to 20% for 2).

13 Likes

I want to talk shadow cov for disc, and contrition

there was a little excitement about shadow cov in the first iteration of the priest tree. We saw a good use of it with the talents we had, wikid star etc

But now. no build i create can i see myself taking it. Tbh i liked in bfa as a heal on the move but now and DF it just not something i can see being taken.

Contrition. The idea was good. For those fights like in legion i think it (imonar?) was where you couldnt actually hit something to heal, running through the tunnel and so contrition would work there. But currently i feel its lacklustre, and if buffed it would then incentivise people to run Dpen, over Offensive pen. Personally i think both should go.

You have shown that you are willing to look back i the past for old talents. Borrowed time being one. Do so again pls :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Echoing this sentiment here. It is really strange that two procs occur off of Vampiric Touch, which is completely out of your control if you have a dotted target. I think this is a great opportunity to replace Vampiric Insight with Sepulcher’s 2piece set bonus of proccing off of Insanity spent. This would also add some much needed interaction to Devouring Plague and Mind Sear, away from Vampiric Touch.

To add onto this, I think it would be more inline with current talent tree design philosophy and overall better for Priest for Vampiric Embrace to swap places with Silence in the Shadow tree.

This way all Priest specs would have access to an interrupt, where right now they are the only class in the game without one.

Additionally, Shadow would be able to bring unique utility to group content in Vampiric Embrace, without its design being constrained around the other specs of the class. I really feel like it should be the single best off-healing raid cooldown. We are Priests, afterall.

13 Likes

Couldn’t agree more with this. Even if there is a utility talent in the Shadow tree that turns Silence into what it currently is (or a passive because I don’t necessarily agree with a talent in the spec tree augmenting a talent in the class tree) and an interrupt version in the base tree for all three specs.

Vampiric Embrace seems like a decent idea, but Disc and Holy really aren’t going to be casting enough shadow spells to justify ever taking this talent. If we want Mind Games (which I hate in the class tree) we need to spec into that, Apathy, or Void Shield. None of these talents are very appealing for the healer specs.

If Vampiric Embrace is to stay then I think some kind of rework would be appropriate here. This could be made into a leech raid buff which I think would be pretty cool… But even in that case it would be best suited for only Shadow to “give them a reason” to be brought to raid outside of damage tuning.

7 Likes

Priest Feedback: Crowd Control Target Caps

With the return of Void Tendrils in Dragonflight, one of the major pain points of Priest’s crowd control once again shows up. The target cap of 5 on AoE CC spells.

Psychic Scream

Psychic scream has always had this target cap of 5, and throughout Shadowlands it has made the spell incredibly inconsistent as a tool to interrupt dangerous casts in large pulls. The most obvious example is Fish Sticks in Tazavesh Gambit, casting Scream to interrupt this cast, only to have 5 other murlocs be feared instead of the one casting is a really negative experience. Removing the target cap would bring it in line with more recent additions Blinding Light and Blinding Sleet.

Void Tendrils

This one’s different, when this spell was last in the game it didn’t have a target cap. Seeing it have a cap of 5 in Dragonflight is disappointing as it massively reduces its effectiveness as a kiting or control tool for Mythic+. Looking at other aoe control tools, such as Mass Entanglement, Binding Shot, and Ursols’ vortex do not have this downside.

Consider looking at both of these spells and how they interact with how Mythic+ is played. Being able to consistently control / disrupt the correct mobs in Mythic+ has become hugely important, and failing this purely because of RNG is a huge pain point.

21 Likes

Another thing that I don’t think has been mentioned much about the mind sear changes is that we are losing our only real source of constant, instant aoe. While this could feel fine in current content, I’m a bit afraid of the issues we had for transmog runs in legion returning.

Another aspect we are losing with the mind sear change is the ability to halt our insanity loss out of combat, which was especially useful in m+ while waiting for rp before some bosses or on longer runs between packs

7 Likes

I have played Discipline priest at a Cutting Edge level for a couple of years, so I wanted to give a bit of feedback on how I feel about some of the new talents as well as some that were removed.

Power Word: Radiance + Light’s Promise + Bright Pupil/Enduring Luminescence
These three talents are significantly better than before the update because there’s actually some meaningful choice with the choice node, as well as not being forced in spending 2 points for 20% increased Radiance healing when it might not be useful for the fight.

Power Word: Barrier
Moving this talent further up in the tree is great, since it’s one of the core spells that makes Discipline good in a raiding environment.

Shield Discipline / Power Word: Solace
Shield Discipline with current tuning for how Power Word: Shield works is far too weak. The damage of Power Word: Solace also seems pretty low.

Rapture / Spirit Shell
I really hate that Spirit Shell is making a return here. Many Discipline priests will tell you that this creates a toxic environment between themselves and other healers as you directly remove the ability for other healers to do healing with this spell. Rapture here is fine, if Power Word: Shield is meant to apply Atonement, even though I think generally the spell is going to be weaker, maybe the absorb increase could use a small increase.

Contrition
This talent is always going to be problematic because either it’s too weak to ever cast Penance defensively, or it’s strong enough and you never cast Penance offensively. I’d really like to just see it removed, as there’s not really any decision making to have here, especially with the new single target options in the Priest class tree.

Shadow Covenant + Embrace Shadow / Twilight Corruption
Shadow Covenant is a cool idea, but Discipline doesn’t have enough shadow spells to really utilize the buff, now that Shadow Mend has a cooldown and we no longer have Mind Sear. Twilight Corruption also has an issue in that Dark Reprimand is just weaker than Penance. I would like to see this talent maybe make Smite a shadow spell as well.

Borrowed Time
This talent feels like it has potential, but I think it might be fairly awkward to play with. If you’re using Rapture, it’s just a solid increase to the number of Atonements you will be able to apply during the window. If you aren’t playing Rapture, it feels like a small maintenance buff that you would want to use somewhere during your ramp to maybe get out an extra Atonement or two. I don’t really like this, as it feels like it is pushing Power Word: Shield towards a core part of the rotation just for the sake of getting this buff, instead of being a situational spell I would use to help a single target who is taking damage.

Exaltation
I’m glad this talent was buffed from the last talent tree. 3 extra seconds for both of these spells is actually meaningful, compared to the 1 second from before.

Balance In All Things
Pretty cool talent, this will create a rhythm during your burst windows where you don’t just prioritize the highest damaging spell in your kit, you will want to rotate between holy and shadow spells.

Lenience / Evangelism
This choice node kind of sucks. Evangelism is a core spell for Discipline, it’s what enables us to actually do raid healing, I feel like this spell should be in the middle section of the tree somewhere. Lenience is a fine talent, but it’s a pretty lame capstone.

Indemnity / Aegis of Wrath
Just like the previous choice node, this feels pretty lame for a capstone choice. The Atonement duration with Power Word: Shield will definitely be nice with Rapture, but is otherwise fairly lackluster. With the strength of Spirit Shell and the ability to pair it with Evangelism, I struggle to see a world where you would actually take Rapture. Aegis of Wrath just kind of sucks without more Power Word: Shield support on the tree.

Light’s Wrath
I love this ability, glad to see it making a return from Legion. With a proper ramp setup, this ability will hit incredibly hard and it’s another tool we can use to flow with Balance In All Things due to the Radiant damage.

Wrath, Unleashed
I like the buffs to Light’s Wrath itself for this talent, but the extra Smite damage kind of sucks. I would prefer to see like a flat 5% damage bonus or something along those lines instead, because we will really want to cast Light’s Wrath at the beginning of our burst rotation, with something like 5 or 6 spells afterwards before we resort to filling with Smite. This will heavily eat into that 15 seconds of extra Smite damage and many of our Atonements will have fallen off by this point.

Harsh Discipline
This talent is great, it very frequently turns Penance into an incredibly strong damage spell without increasing the cast time.

Weal and Woe
This talent feels weird, especially for a capstone. Power Word: Shield feels like a spell that we only use occasionally, unless we are playing with Rapture, and buffing Smite isn’t going to matter that much. I’d like to see something else here, maybe a follow-up to Harsh Discipline that makes it reset the cooldown of Penance, or automatically benefit from Power of the Dark Side?

Mindbender + Fiending Dark + Shadowflame Prism
This set of talents will be great to play with, as you will consistently have Mindbender up for every single pack in dungeons and Shadowflame Prism will give you a decent bit of extra Atonement healing or just AoE damage.

Expiation
I don’t think I would ever want to play with this talent because of the annoyance of applying my DoT spell more often.

From the last talent tree, I think the thing I wanted to see further iteration on was Inner Light and Shadow. This spell had really great potential to add even more skill for Discipline players and finally hammer down on the fantasy of using Shadow and Holy spells, the primary issue was that it was on the global cooldown. I would love to see this spell make a return but be taken off the global cooldown. The other thing I want to mention is the crazy amount of button bloat with this new tree. Holy Word: Life is a great tool for dungeons especially, same with the slightly reworked Shadow Mend. We now have Flash Heal and Renew as Atonement applicators, but we still want to have Power Word: Shield and Shadow Mend on our bars. Discipline has always had a lot of buttons to press, even before this expansion, but I would really like to see that number either kept about the same as Shadowlands or maybe even reduced a bit.

For the Priest class tree, I’m disappointed that we are the only healer in the game now who doesn’t have access to an interrupt. I would like to see this somewhere in the tree.

5 Likes

Not to mention breaking stealth classes out in PvP. I don’t think that has been brought up yet, but it is a very common use case for Mind Sear.

10 Likes

hmm A toggleable version like MOP fire n brimstone?

I feel like that might be rather clunky, I think id be more of a fan of mind flay: Insanity also affecting mind sear with its position greatly altered or mind sear drains insanity to do more damage, as is not being able to cast it at all unless having insanity feels like a hole is missing in the kit not to mentions its weird action where you can cast it with only 25 insanity and it will only do damage on the first tick but still will full channel.

Personally, I think I would like mindflay: insanity also affecting mind sear, but like I also said , its position would need to be greatly changed in the tree

2 Likes

Class Tree

There are no dependency issues in the class tree

Dead Talents (for any spec)
These are talents that never have a realistic place

Vampiric Embrace (and San’layn)
This is arguably more problematic for disc than for holy, but Vampiric Embrace only working on single target shadow damaging spells means its healing for holy/disc is extremely low. For holy these spells are:

Shadow Word: Pain
Mind Blast
Shadow Word: Death
Mindgames (if chosen)

A large portion of Holy Priest damage comes from Divine Star and Holy Fire, neither of which work with Vampiric Embrace. Regardless of that however, vampiric embrace will never do enough healing to do anything even if it was all damage, as healers simply do not do enough damage to make it worth the global. Notably, if healing is actually needed, Vampiric Embrace would do even less, as healing spells will not contribute. San’layn does not fix this issue either.

An idea that has popped around is to make Vampiric Embrace give leech instead, which makes sense with the spell’s name already. This allows it to be potent for holy, disc and shadow, without making it reliant on specific timers to work. (i.e: it was only ever impactful with Voidform for shadow, and even then weaker than many other cooldowns like Rallying Cry for instance)

Void Shield
Even more problematic as the refill is very slow, especially for healers. Not to mention Power Word: Shield itself doesn’t last very long and most instances of damage break through it fairly quickly.

Inspiration
This one has problems for Shadow mainly. Shadow Priests, namely don’t have much inspiration (pun intended) to cast flash heal, as the heal itself isn’t very impactful and they have better tools for such emergency healing, considering the case doesn’t happen very often. (Holy Word: Life, Void Shift, Shadow Mend) In pvp, Blessed Recovery is simply going to be much more reliable. For instance at base 10% crit (with some minor rng based on what crits) 7.5% of incoming damage gets healed.

Unwavering Will
Once again problematic mostly due to Shadow (and possibly altering how discipline priests play unintentionally). This is a bit better than inspiration due to it just working but its main use case is still pvp, as there are better options for emergency off-healing than Flash Heal. This notably excludes holy-schooled spells that holy priests do not have, like Power Word: Radiance and Penance. Perhaps intended. In pve shadow priests– when they do heal– heal themselves, mainly because they aren’t really rewarded for healing others. Incentivizing shadow priests to heal (or just making it less punishing) would go a long way to making healing-related talents better for them.

Binding Heals
Similar story as the previous flash-heal based talents. I probably should have combined all 3 of these. This is useless for shadow, and pretty weak for holy and disc, as flash heal simply will not encompass a lot of their healing. This would need substantially buffed for shadow, so maybe it wasn’t the most fair to put here.

Surge of Light (with an asterisk)
If this doesn’t work with Mind Flay as well, then its value for shadow is pretty bad, and often not very beneficial at all-simply existing in the way of Holy Word: Life. It’s pretty neat for the healer specs, though a common wish is for it to work with all damaging spells as well.

Improved Fade (asterisk: see reasoning)
Currently there is a connection between Mindgames and Improved Fade that allows you to get this talent without having a reason to use fade this often. Fade’s actual purpose of dropping aggro temporarily/reduce aggro range is nice, but getting it 10s faster isn’t doing anything. 30s cd is already short enough for anytime you’d want it. This talent goes from dead to ‘meh’ (certainly feels bad to put 2 points into it) if you take Translucent Image- and nichely good with Phantasm- primarily in pvp.

What are the goals of these talents?
Shadow Mend
Honestly, the place for shadow mend seems very muddied. It’s a 15s cd without the power of one, and fills a role that is occupied for any of the 3 specs (Holy Word: Life, Serenity, Heal, Flash Heal) Is this simply for its follow-up node? Why not have it simply replace Flash Heal in this case.

Tools of the Cloth
Usually if a healing spell is being casted, it is not going to be followed up with a bunch of damage spells. If the point of this talent is to simply increase damage, it doesn’t do that very well either. It’s more impactful if you go the other way around- damaging spells increase the impact of Shield’s healing. This keeps the spirit of the talent while making it actually fulfill some purpose. This arguably should’ve gone in the “dead” talents category as is, but theoretically it could be tuned up to a damage increase to cast shield.

Sheer Terror
The only thing I can come up with for this is in solo-content– which isn’t inherently a problem as it is a choice node but, it is problematic in keys as feared mobs can often pulls other packs, and minorly useful in pvp as you’re often not attacking feared players anyways. (though it does reward fearing multiple players, including kill targets– though its niche seems a bit– unlikely to be what secures the kill.

Twist of Fate
This currently doesn’t work at all on beta so apologies if this isn’t accurate. Holy Priests and Disc Priests seem to be picking up a boss execute niche, with full uptime on twist of fate for the last 35% of boss fights? This is unexplored for healers so I wouldn’t mind– just curious if that’s desired or not.

Consider the following…
Mind Control vs Dominant Mind
Dominant Mind is not inherently an improvement over Mind Control in its current iteration. Due to this, it feels quite bad to spend 2 points to get it. Ways to remedy this (and there may be more):

– buff dominant mind. Whether that is reducing its cd or increasing its impact doesn’t matter
– make it a choice node with Mind Control instead of costing 2 points
This allows you to still pick to have dominant mind instead of mind control if you wanted
– make Dominant Mind a separate ability from Mind Control.
This isn’t exactly preferred, but it would make it much better and serve a purpose without losing Mind Control to do so.

Target Caps of our few and only cc abilities
Psychic Scream and Void Tendrils both having a target cap of 5 makes it pretty unreliable in many of its theoretical use cases. This leaves Discipline priests with no reliable way to help the dungeon group in regards to cc- and holy left to just chastise.

Shining Force?
A well-liked, useful ability that I and many others are surprised to see go away. It also served as one of the better knocks in the game. One such idea I had personally was to have a talent that allowed you to select the origin of its knock on the floor, a lot like hunter traps, barrier, spirit link, mass dispel to name a few. Blizzard would enjoy more things that are situationally very nice to have like Death Grip right?

Silence?
At the time of this writing, holy and disc priests are the only specs in the game without a kick. This would hurt a lot less with other reliable ways to cc, but it doesn’t really make sense with what is currently there. Priest healers are needlessly losing out here with no upside.

Mind Blast… and Holy Fire?
In BFA’s beta cycle, holy priests had access to both of these spells, and with that came complaints of spell bloat. The fix? Baking Mind Blast into Holy Fire. This was largely successful and was well-praised by holy priests. Why is it returning?

Rapid-Fire Thoughts
Rhapsody seems incredibly weak at the moment, a buff may fix this, not problematic design wise necessarily (though its ramp-up is very slow!)

Body and Soul seems a bit outdated, giving random players speed boosts can occasionally be harmful, idk what the fix is but, it’s a bit less problematic now that shield has a cooldown. Rapture for disc however…

Shackle Undead: It’s pretty good when it is useful, it just doesn’t come up as much as id like, wonder if a talent improving how much it comes up would be worth exploring

Mindgames: I suppose one covenant ability needed to return– and this one is well liked. (in pvp) It seems a bit redundant for disc and shadow, and is just a button for damage in many cases for Holy. I wonder if it should just become a pvp talent? Spending 4 points for this is a bit of a bummer for those “must have max damage” shadows out in the world.

Holy Tree

Dependency Issues

Empyreal Blaze and Searing Light can be selected without learning Holy Fire

Some Weirdness…

All the dps-increasing (though unfortunately with no healing benefit) talents are on the right side, but oddly it’s intermingled with random healing talents. Most strangely however, is that Prayer of the Virtuous- a talent that increases how many times prayer of mending jumps– is the precursor to Empyreal Blaze. While its fine for pvp, prayer of mending is significantly less casted in dungeons, where its healing just isn’t as useful. Empyreal blaze is very much desired in dungeons so they will have to pick up Prayers of the Virtuous anyways. Something single target healing or damage based would make more sense on the right side of the tree.

Lightwell
This talent is just simply, not good for various reasons:
1. 10 yard range is very small, and will very often lead to wasted charges
2. Lightwell being a hot effect is problematic, as it often overwrites itself due to not healing its target above the 50% threshold
3. When it does heal it is very unimpactful with current tuning. So it is not even worth its mana cost.
4. Only healing 1 person each second means it does not even have a place for mechanics that encourage stacking up in preparation for high damage intake. Whats the purpose of this spell?
5. Its on a choice node with Lightweaver– a very different talent. This is an interesting choice.

Some other Thoughts…

Everlasting Light is a bit weak. You probably don’t want to be casting Heal much, as its prone to sniping due to its long cast, thus overhealing– unless you run Lightweaver which is not a given. But even in this case, its not really changing what you cast, and often won’t change the result either.

One idea for replacing Lightwell is to reflavor the Azerite Essence ‘Well of Existence.’ This solves many of its problems while keeping the health requirement.

Afterlife is neat, sure– but it simply will not compete with Archbishop Benedictus’ Restitution. Afterlife is just too niche whereas the Xan’shi effect just simply works. A cheat death is very good after all. What could be explored instead is the pvp talent Spirit of the Redeemer, which would put up a much better fight- not to mention decrease the vitriol of some pvp’ers who are worried about stacking the 2 talents.

Miracle Worker is also extremely weak. The main benefit of having charges on a spell is to ease the tension caused by needing to push said button on cooldown. It is pretty easy already to keep serenity on cd, so in reality this isn’t doing much for you, unfortunate as it shares a capstone with the much better and more flexible Divine Word.

Due to heavy competition in the bottom section of the tree, Searing Light and Desperate Times doesn’t seem to have a place. The relative strength of the other talents just superseded its value. Searing Lights’ biggest asset is being cheaper to path through to get to Divine Word (2 points instead of 3) though this is limited if you wanted Say Your Prayers anyways as it no longer even does that. Light of the Naaru, Harmonious Apparatus and Salvation/Apotheosis on the other hand almost feel mandatory to grab.

The talents in general are a bit boring, something feels… missing, I’m not sure how to explain. It is mostly pretty solid but it doesn’t really feel that way just looking at them.

10 Likes

What’s happening to Greater Fade? It’s no longer in the honor talent list for either holy or shadow. Being such an iconic spell for both specs please provide some explanations for removing it.

2 Likes

I can finally reply in the beta forums! Let’s get started.

This is mainly a shadow perspective

So I want to go more or less down the tree and talk about stuff I think is good, bad, and mediocre. Let me start with saying the new tree is a drastic improvement to the old one, I think both the class and spec tree are great bases to start working off of.

Class Tree - shadow perspective

— In general, before I talk about anything in particular, I would like to say I’m extremely concerned about the lack of any really functional mobility in the tree. Having Body and Soul and feathers is nice, but it really feels to me like it’s just feathers with an extra charge a lot of times.

As solid as feathers is, I think the mobility creep in the game has rather caught up with them, and I don’t expect to be the absolute most mobile class in the game, but not seeing something like vault of heavens or spectral guise as some sort of movement cooldown is very disappointing.

Speaking of spectral guise, please consider adding this in as some sort of mobility. I don’t think it needs to be exactly the same as it used to be, but it’s such a beloved spell for the priest community, I’d love to see it come back in some capacity as a sort of Feign Death/movespeed ability. Just some remnant of what it was please.

— The second major thing I see that concerns me is the lack of an interrupt in the class tree, this is less from a shadow perspective and more from a priest perspective in general. I understand the PVP implications of giving holy/disc a silence, and I don’t think silence specifically should be in the class tree, but giving priest access to a basic 24 sec cooldown interrupt in the class tree seems like something that should definitely happen.

— The final thing that concerns me is the lack of valuable defensives in the class tree. Angelic bulwark, frankly, sucks, especially considering it’s a capstone. Void shift is neat, but it doesn’t really make us survive big hits. The changes to the fade DR don’t make sense to me, we don’t need a long small passive DR, we are already very good at surviving small hits, we are not so good at surviving huge hits.

I think fade should be changed back to being 10-15% for 5 seconds, and I’d like to see Angelic bulwark be made to be more useful.

— TALENTS —

Just getting straight into it. The top of the tree is solid, shadow mend feels kind of odd now, just being another thing we have to keybind, I don’t hate it personally, but we do have a lot of keybinds right now. Wouldn’t mind just seeing shadow mend replace Flash Heal.

Holy Nova is a weird ability. I don’t think it really has a purpose and rhapsody feels terrible.

Sheer Terror should be removed, replace it with mind bomb stun, it would actually compete with void tendrils and I could see use cases for both.

Void tendrils shouldn’t have a target cap, it’s been mentioned already but hoping RNG picks out the correct targets isn’t fun. Adjust the duration or something, but just don’t leave it target capped please.

** Middle section **

My biggest piece of feedback in this section is just Vampiric Embrace. I’m glad it’s here, but it’s not even functional from a Holy/Disc perspective. A raid wide leech buff would be awesome to see, 3% or so like how druids now give speed.

** End Section **

I’ve already talked about most of these talents, but it’s a little weak down here.

Void Shift is cool to see. I LOVE Holy word: Life and I hope it’s usable, the idea seems really fun to me and it seems like there could be a lot of skill expression in using it well.

I like Divine star/Halo, where’s cascade though? :frowning:

First impressions after playing around with some stuff, going to post about the shadow tree next.

3 Likes