Why the devs' arguments against total remaking of the campaign are flawed

All your arguments seem solid. I too believe that cutting the total reforging we were promised is indeed a huge lie. It wouldn’t have bothered me at all if they said they had time constraints, but retconning the campaign would in my opinion have been the best way. New voice actors wouldn’t hurt either. If people wanted the pure Wc3 experience they can just play the regular wc3 campaign in a reforged version, but for those of us expecting something new and refreshing it’s a huge slap in the face. To be fair they did redo the terrain, but the poor excuses they come up with for not fulfilling their obligations are, as already said, a slap in the face.


The main meaning of “reforge” is reforged campaign. Without it, “Reforge” is just a remaster of WC3.
Look at Polygon interview past year.

EDIT: that was flaw argument

The goal is not just to give Warcraft 3 a new coat of paint, but “do more with it.”

And more means not to improve editor, because common players will not look inside it. Editor improving is forced by old mapmakers.


Yet you’ll play the campaign once, and then move on to another game, while old map makers will keep this game alive for many more years to come. Improving the editor is the most important part about this reforged wc3 - the only reason you get the reforged version is cause map makers made tons of maps and kept the game alive for more than a decade and a half.


This is why I don’t care about your opinion. You ignore the vast engine upgrades, bringing the system into the new Battle net system, as well as editor upgrades and computer-language compatibilities, better resolutions and screen re-framings. Theres so many new features, beyond any simple “remaster” titling, that any attempt to frame the “Reforging” as a lie is simply ridiculous. They hit almost every box the modding community wanted.


All of these was done in StartCraft: Remastered. Blizzard promised to do more.

From that Polygon article

“When we went to Korea [for StarCraft : Remastered ] and talked with pros and people still playing in game rooms, the overwhelming feedback was ‘Please don’t change the game,’” Stillwell said. “‘Make it pretty, give us a modern matchmaker and then quietly step away, Blizzard.’ Getting those marching orders made the endeavor not just easier but more focused. But with [ Warcraft 3: Reforged ], we’ve talked with the communities in Europe and in China [who say], ‘Hey, we don’t think this game is done.’”

The goal is not just to give Warcraft 3 a new coat of paint, but “do more with it.”

“Let’s push it,” Stillwell said. “Let’s get it to be as perfectly balanced as StarCraft . Let’s add more to the editor, because it’s already powerful. And like a good Blizzard game, it’s easy to learn, difficult to master, [but let’s] also make it even deeper.”
Blizzard is also promising to “reforge” the game’s cinematic cutscenes, and will tweak portions of the game to fall in line with the past decade and a half of lore established by World of Warcraft .

Seems like only this.

I very appreciate that Blizzard improves editor, and most of updates were already done in 1.31 that was released on 31st May.

I did not tell that Reforged is a lie, I told that without “reforged” campaign Reforged is just a remaster with improved editor which is far away from what was shown on BlizzCon 2018 and said in their interviews in 2018.

None asked Blizzard for “reforged” cutscenes and campaign, they decided to do this and then promised this. And after A YEAR of silence they are saying “Well, we have feedback, no new cutscenes and campaign”. Ok, this feedback really exists, but why the whole YEAR of silence? Why on BlizzCon 2019? Why not to announce such news during summer, ater 1.31? They could not do this right after BlizzCon 2018 due to storm around Diablo Immortal, but they could do this in the middle of 2019.

Nobody knows what we will get on release, we can only wait. I hope that Reforged will be much better than current beta: will have working tool for “reforged” cutscenes (tool is present in beta but does not work), non-working functions from 1.31 will be fixed, campaign will be somehow reforged and melee will be getting constant balance updates.


They could also start unhardcoding stuff in stages

Wait they are scrapping content and that’s what you come up with. And they say devs don’t look at forums. Good for them lel.

the same people that want this great story redone are the same ones that cry about lack of eye color variation for their legolas character.

I like your points, but saying “none asked Blizzard for “reforged” cutscenes and campaign […]” simply isn’t true. Or at least we couldn’t possibly know whether or not it is true. As far as I know there weren’t any huge surveys as to what Reforged would contain before they launched their trailer and announced it at blizzcon 2018.
But indeed, the YEAR of silence is in no context a good thing when you want direct communication with your fanbase.
Lastly, those editor upgrades you say happened in May happened because of Reforged, so all updates since announcement I would still count as part of the Reforged content.
I do believe that the miscommunication, or rather lack of communication, is the cause of all these refund-requests and angry posters on the forums.

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I would love if they delayed the game to make new campaign but I don’t expect that.

or they could just at least promise the WoWzers to wait for an additional patch for a “Reforged” campaign to appease them, which they can’t even do

I would accept that.

Give more time to the game receive more polish! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

That’s why I said that “nobody asked”. Yes, “nobody asked” is not very true, people asked before BlizzCon 2018 to make remaster of WC3, but I do not think that a lot of people also asked to remake the campaign in addition.

In my opinion, on BlizzCon 2018 they had to just announce about remaster and ask community to remake of campaign or not. Without any preorder or with preorder after collecting sufficient feedback. Lot’s of people wanted remaster of WC3, even such announce would be hyped. This would be win-win. Unfortunately, only would be.

The same I meant too, according to Hive page Lua and UI editing was planned for Reforged, but they added these in 1.31 to test them in prior.


Hopefully, even they cancelled new cutscenes, on BlizzCon 2019 they promised to do with campaign something. But it was too late, that Polygon article spreaded as plague and hurt a lot.

They are remaking the terrain completely to fit WoW. If you look in the beta World Editor you can see Lordaeron Capitol dome, Silvermoon buildings and Stratholme buildings too. This seems to me very contradictive, since they said that fans bashed the retconning and voice acting so they dropped the new voice actors and so forth. But why even remake terrain then? My personal opinion on this is that the campaign SHOULD have been totally retconned, new voice actors and new characters and a “different” campaign compared to regular Warcraft III. If you don’t like it, don’t play it. There’s always the option, like now, to play the original campaign anyway. I like how the lore in WoW developed until WotLK and honestly I wouldn’t have minded seeing an edited Wc3 fit into that narrative.
By the way, when i say “different” campaign i really mean a few more side missions, just like i think they would have done. They put new elven heroes into the world editor including Anasterian Sunstrider, and I would have loved to see a mission with him in.

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This seems to me very contradictive, since they said that fans bashed the retconning and voice acting so they dropped the new voice actors and so forth. But why even remake terrain then?

The likely scenario is they originally wanted to remake everything and redo the voices and make totally new cutscenes; but they planned too much to all fit in one year timeframe.

So the best thing to do was cut the new dialogue and the cutscenes, because they can still use the original.

As for the new terrain; that’s just mapping content so no reason to cut it. It doesn’t affect the story and it doesn’t require much more effort compared to having new actors voice everything and making sure it lines up with the new cutscenes.

If Reforged was a mid-to-late 2020 release, then I’m sure we could get all that. But with the core developers of the original RTS games recently leaving Blizzard, I don’t think there’s much faith in RTS in general.

Excellent, now we’ll get to the core aspect of what exactly is wrong with it. They said all they were gonna do and then they decide not to do it after 10 months of silence where we all sit by and expect them to deliver on the promises. Most of us i bet, pre-ordered within a week of the Blizzcon announcement, just to have all communication cut between fans and developers. Furthermore I believe it would be acceptable to mostly everyone that they exceeded the release date (as I believe they did with The Burning Crusade etc.?) than to just cut the content most of us paid for. I’m not going to refund because I personally still think this is one of the most exciting game news I have heard in a long time, but I’m still kinda ambivalent towards the developers for cutting the content in such a harsh way.
By the way I believe that you’re wrong in regards to the voice actors. I would find it much easier to line up voices to cutscenes. Besides, they’re remaking the cutscenes aswell, as seen in the Culling. They have to change terrain, camera perspective etc. etc., all to make it fit this entirely new map.


By the way I believe that you’re wrong in regards to the voice actors. I would find it much easier to line up voices to cutscenes.

I didn’t say it was difficult. I said they probably didn’t want to make the effort to redo all the voices.

When it comes to a project like this, a lot of decisions come down to production schedules and making deadlines. If time can be spent more on X and Y while Z can be cut to save on that time, then that’s what happens sometimes. And Blizzard isn’t exempt to this just because they seemed infallible before; even WC3 had huge chunks of promised features shifted and cut like an entire CG cinematic for the Arthas vs Illidan fight before Arthas ascends the Frozen Throne.

Oh yeah, I do get that there’s a whole company behind these decisions and it all comes down to cutting your losses to a minimum if you can say that. But I still think that postponing the release would have been the right choice. But the shareholders and the company wouldn’t have any notable difference in profits by postponing. But I still think postponing it would have been the best option.