Why No WC4 - Blizzard's Bizzare Decision

General Discussion
60

They haven’t said this, in fact, Wc3 reforged is being changed to fit with wow lore.

61

It wasn’t great, at all, Hots already had kerrigan RPG boss fighting which was completely out of touch with the game and the entire story was ridiculous, then LOTV went even further beyond.

Sc2 wasn’t even close to sc1 in terms of story, remember Mengk’s speech? now that was good writing.

Not saying that WoL story sucked but it wasn’t on the level of sc1.

1 Like
62

Artanis making uneasy alliances and trying to rebuild his people’s Army was a great story. No, it’s nothing compared to SC1; but comparing things to other things is not what makes it good or bad. LOTV’s story was very solid, up until the whole Xel’naga reveal/Kerrigan empowerment end.

Also, Alarak and his Tal’darim was the best addition to Starcraft 2. This is something I can’t attribute to any other expansion. He added a lot more depth to Artanis’ character, and a lot more depth to Protoss culture as a whole seeing what a deviation of Protoss would be like if they did not follow the path of the Khala. To me these allied armies felt more substantial than the Terrans recruiting some prisoners or helping some scientists, or Kerrigan finding new strains to evolve. It wasn’t just new additions to the army, it was integrating completely separate ‘cultures’ back into the main race. And I think they did a very good job in telling that story.

I never really liked Artanis’ character, even back in SC1. He was archetypical and didn’t have any depth to his character. I pegged him to be the typical zealous ‘Paladin’ type in SC2 as well. His interactions with Alarak actually showed some depth. I can’t really say there many characters from SC1 that were portrayed better than in SC2, but LOTV’s portrayal of Artanis really worked for me.

1 Like
63

I think a Warcraft4 would be the final chapter in the world of Warcraft and the final death of that game, told in a final grand scale story in the rts genre. Idk thats just my view on a warcraft4

64

Just because some of them can add a play/pause element doesn’t necessitate that RTS are not a 4X genre. It’s a square vs rectangle thing here dude. Not all Rectangles are Squares (read 4X are RTS) but all Squares are rectangles (read RTS are 4X).

RTS do not have to be face-paced or strategic LOL!! Clash of Clans/Clash Royale is technically an RTS. Flash games can be RTS. You can even say online clicker games (like Click the Cookie) are technically an “RTS” as they are, in fact, real time, and require basic math as the “strategy.”"

65

Na Only a quarter of a quarter. Most WoW Players are not interessted in the Story and of those who are interessted most of them want story only in WoW.

66

So did you actually think that there was any kind of saving grace to the writing in Wings of Liberty??! Just the first cutscene and mission in the campaign were complete caricatures. Don’t get me started on the rest of the problems it had.

IMO W3 really ended at Eternity’s End, FT just sets up WoW (except ironically the Undead campaign) and doesn’t bring much new stuff to the story that makes sense without WoW.

LotV wasn’t that great, it was just the Protoss giving up their communal link to become strong individuals free of class (almost literally for that second part). Nothing more generic than that. Nothing close to, let’s say, the Zerg campaign in SC1, where they went all in to explore a literally alien way of doing things.

67

My error, i should have written “SC2”.

68

hehe :slight_smile: no worries. It’s easy to forget that SC2’s story blows from the very start to the very bitter end.

69

But didnt they fixed D3 with reapers & those starcraft expansions was good as well … Blizz seems to have bad lunches & acting disappointing since Activision putting there dirty hands into our beloved game dev studio more and more but , there is hope cos. there are still many dedicated ppl working on great games & or improve and fix those games they released already. So please let us see what #teamreforged is gonna deliver us in the end of the year & how the future of the WarCraft RTS series gonna be. Stop hating start helping ! ~2S2P

1 Like
70

Great points on DoW 3. I was in the beta, and at the time the game appeared to have some potential then. In they beta forums there were A TON of longtime, old school RTS players who were fans of both early Blizzard RTS games along with DoW 1 and 2. We went out of our way to give excellent feedback, bug reporting, and advice for how we’d like the game to go. A lot of the advice asked them to focus on the single player campaign more and tone down the MOBA-esque elements of the game.

But the devs literally ignored every single piece of good feedback and suggestions we gave them. Their main problem was they were secretly focused on turning the game into a wannabe MOBA focused on microtransactions. While many folks wanted good balanced PvP, nobody wanted the laning/MOBA elements.

On release they turned out a shoddy, poorly optimized, wannabe hybrid MOBA with what many fans and journalists agreed was one of the worst single player campaigns in gaming history. So yeah it was definitely a VERY badly done game.

The truth of the matter is that there was SIGNIFICANT interest in the forums for classic, casual RTS elements like strong well developed campaigns. So despite everybody going around saying interest in RTS genre has entirely waned, that’s simply not true IMO. There’s still some interest out there, hell in fact theres a lot of fans of the genre literally chomping at the bit for a good AAA RTS. I mean take a look at Total War: Warhammer II, which was a massive success and capitalized on filling a niche that Blizzard foolishly left vacant, as Blizz devoted massive resources instead to a variety of failed games (HOTS, WoW: WoD, and all these mobile games under development that NOBODY WANTS.)

So there is definitely love for the genre, and folks still spending money on it.

So I think there is definitely potential for Warcraft 3: Reforged to do some brisk business. Especially if they give it enough resources to feel more like a new game than a simple reskin. Hopefully with the Diablo Immortal disaster, Blizzard will finally get the hint that they need to refocus on giving their core fanbase what they want. And basically EVERYBODY who was old enough to play Warcraft 3 15 years ago will say that the single most title they’d like to see from Blizzard is the continuation of the Wacraft RTS franchise.

So it seems like there’s potential here- but we’ll have to see how things goes. The devs will need to do a good job tuning multiplayer, and the corporate moneymen will need to realize that they need to treat this thing with respect and give it the resources it needs to have a chance to be big time successful.

So at this point, the success of this game is up in the air and entirely in their hands. Hopefully they will learn from all huge number of past mistakes they’ve made over the last decade, and do this thing right.

2 Likes
71

we need wc4 just so we have more and newer rts pros. im tired of looking at grubby when he failed in sc2 and heroes of the storm, just to come back to a dieing wc3. MOON STOMPS EM NUFF SAID

72

I completely agree with you on this one, Ababmer. I also wanted Warcraft IV. And yes WoW is no excuse for Blizzard not to make it. But Blizzard has changed with time, just as we as gamers have changed. Their priorities and perspectives on games have changed. It’s just the way it is. Life throws curve balls sometimes, we can’t expect things to remain the same.

73

WC3 was born out of diverging the series from existing copycat RTS.

I think WC4 would be the same, and while we ask for WC4, we dont even know if we will like what we get.

What if Autochess was WC4? Think about that.

That is what hurt Dawn of War series.

So they could keep it WC3 gameplay you say? If they dis that what is difference to WC3 or Reforged? Might as well make it an expansion with new units.

WC4 has to be totally fresh and nothing like what we have seen. That is how to become popular like Battle Royale, but also a huge risk too.

1 Like
74

CHAPTER 1:

In Defense of The Existing Wc3 Community.

.________________________________________________.
Not really, its absurd to make wc4. i don’t care about any side reasons like wow or whatever.

RTS genre is not alive and well, its niche and struggling to attract new audience.

If they change the engine and make it even remotely as difficult as starcraft 2.
then good F#@^ing bye custom community.

If good F@^%ing bye custom community, blizzard would have to rely on constant content creation to keep people within the game. and that is not helpful in the slightest.

the classic dev team is not suited for undertaking a major task like this, unlike the wow team that is outright massive in comparison.

Reforged is in every possible way the perfect choice, because they don’t risk to lose their free content creators. aka the community.

TheHiveWorkShop and the community built around warcraft 3 has taken up an outstanding root and it is the foundation and pillar of this game right next to blizzard itself.

Blizzard said (Blizzcon stage 2018 representing Wc3RF) their objective of creating Reforged was to give back to the community, because the community refused to die when wc3 was becoming more of an abandonware entering 2019 until Reforged was announced, and moral was really low.

So remember, Warcraft 4s creation will come at the cost of the wonderful and passionate existing community. so even if YOU the casual person can EASILY take that pill, remember if current mapmakers just lose all they have built they will suddenly have a moral stroke and abandon wc3 and refuse to continue in wc4.

CHAPTER 2:

Understanding the difference between the RTS games.

.____________________________________________________________________________.

People are constantly saying Warcraft 4 would sell wc4 would sell, well people are too narrow minded and refuse to understand the risk the company has to take and the struggle they have to go with, and people fail to understand outside of their perfect bubble a wider audience DO NOT CARE for an RTS title.

Basically one of the only standing AAA companies that has managed to get away with RTS titles is because they have been doing it non stop for a very long time and their titles have the capacity to sink in 100 or so hours in its grand scale campaigns.

I’m ofc talking about Creative Assembly and the Total War series. with their biggest audience being from their home country England.

And also you have to remember, to create a brand new AAA title RTS title inside the universe of Warcraft that is gripping enough means it most likely will have a 60$ price tag, if you look at Total War games most if not all of them are full 60$ games. what CA have is continues titles coming out and a loyal community.

Something that Blizzard used to have, but no longer has, its been a full 9 years without any RTS games from them. (Starcraft 2)

I don’t care what people from USA would say to me, but in EU and Asia which by the way are larger supporters of RTS compared to USA. find it hard to buy a 60$ game. and to create a brand new RTS with a price tag of 30$ lets say without the inclusion of microstransactions and paid skins to not get boooooed by people and youtubers therefore creating a bad press is not worth the risk, nor the price tag of 60$ is attractive for people in EU and Asia.

CHAPTER 3:

Personal Opinions

.__________________________.

When i think of an RTS game, i would love to have something classic,

Building my base
Using macro skills and strategy
Destroying my enemy.

I personally do not like hybrid RTS games, and believe it or not Warcraft 3 melee is infact a hybrid RTS. with creeping and looting that create RPG mechanics and the inclusion of hero’s and items impacting the gameplay IRONICALLY level 5000 similar to moba games. and MICRO skills being more important then MACRO in an RTS title which is quite absurd.

And i have seen too many people that think Starcraft 2 is more hard then Warcraft 3 because you have to control more units, that could not be a more bigger of an understatement and misunderstanding. and that’s what i feel is wrong with PEOPLE sometimes.

they see alot of units and ultimately decide its too hard just because of it, while in reality its really not. i have seen too many people SCARED of controlling too many units that i lost my hope of a brand new TRUE RTS titles in the genre.

RTS is all about the wet dream of large armies and grand scale battles. its shameful to me why do soo many people around me see this glorious thing is a negative.

but like it or not RTS titles are universally more difficult then other genres… how difficult ? idk and i don’t feel that because iv’e been a long time RTS enthusiast myself. but i can say difficult enough for the casual joe to not be attracted to it.

And also is it me, or do i feel like with Reforged the new audience are just going to buy this game play the campaign then return back to whatever they were doing. its a real shame to be honest.

To end it all i would say warcraft 3 with reforged can survive through time just like how it survived 17 years. and a new expansion to the game is far more a reasonable approach then a new title. while we wait and see how will other beloved RTS games will preform, mainly and specifically looking at the upcoming Age of Empires 4.

Furthermore i would love to add Starcraft is far more ripe for another new title then Warcraft, its custom community isn’t as important as the wc3 custom community.

And its legendary campaigns long for continuing its story, where the warcraft story is being continued with WoW.

So Starcraft 3 ? yeah, i could def see it happening. and being a more wise choice for the company in general.

2 Likes
75

youre full of shlt Warcraft is their flagship product and a sequel would sell at least as well (if not better) than Diablo 3.

1 Like
76

The biggest market for this game is the P.C population and with that we have to take a few things into mind.

What is the current trend in gaming in general, but particularly P.C?

"PC does have a lot of standing RTS games that for the most part play better than others and dominate the playing field. Civ Rev for instance is one of the biggest names on PC however there are ton’s of others that divide the RTS population in general. Note, that with a more diverse population of games, the less return an investment is going to see unless the product is exceptionally well made.

Who is going to work on it?

The original cast, as far as I understand it, have largely migrated to other games. With Blizzard seemingly taking a step back from RTS we have to reflect that in general the RTS genre had a hayday in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. Who here remembers playing Age of Empires, Civ Rev, and other such games including WC3 and it’s predecessors. It’s hard to re-ignite interest in games like that especially when let’s face it. the modern population of gamers seem to prefer faster paced, less time consuming games which is why FPS is so huge on the market right now. The original producers are just making other games and while yes Blizzard has come out with some awesome games, their dev’s migrate to new positions, new businesses, and develop other games. While Blizzard is a great company, what’s most important are its people.

I don’t think there is much of a conflict with extending the existing story or exploiting the existing one. I can think of a fair few missions in WoW they could emulate in an RTS game and stick to the lore and or explore backgrounds to certain scenarios. Or even explore the “what if’s” which allow for speculation from the audience.

1 Like
77

lets leave this topic until blizzcon.

78

Something that Blizzard used to have, but no longer has, its been a full 9 years without any RTS games from them. (Starcraft 2)

Hrm.

I agreed with most of your thread, but this one stands out to me. I think it’s a bit misappropriate considering they have supported RTS fully and completely since the beginning. While we may not have had a new iteration in the series, they did make 2 expansions for SC2, the latest which came out only 4 years ago. Then there’s SC:R that came out last year. Then there’s Reforged coming this year.

I don’t think it’s right to point at the ‘gap’ since a new RTS. Wings of Liberty was not the only point when people retained interest in Blizzard RTS.

Also the cancelled SC FPS game concerns me on how they value the franchise.

1 Like
79

because starcraft2 is the best RTS game ,ever . compare to starcraft2, warcraft4 is so so so easy, thats why theres no WC4, besides, we dont need wc4, we just need a better balanced war3,buff UD , buff NE nerf ORC nerf HUM thats enough

2 Likes