Warden can easily enter a base, kill all wisp/peon/aco within 3 seconds, then disappear. And come back do the same 1 min later. and repeat. Not normal
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“warden too strong”
I’ve never seen these three words in the same sentence. Warden is widely regarded as the worst Night Elf hero.
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Can you still identify any weaknesses in the current version of the Night Elves? I have long been tired of a group of heavily armored female hunters running around like a group of mice, and this balance is simply the most absurd I have seen in over 20 years 
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Exactly, even PotM is stronger, and any argument otherwise seems mostly based on most-played hero statistics.
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I notice it is only this strong vs UD, as your acolytes are exposed and gathered in the same place. Slow tower dosnt help because you can buy Anti magic potion and invul potion. I come in with invul pot, AM pot, mana pot, and a staff of tele. The chaos begins at lvl 3 with FoK 2 and blink 1…..
Early ghoul pressure vs NE is strong. Avoid CL beetles as wisp detonate is a decent counter. DK , LICH , DL or DR 1st is recommended here. Your choice of tavern hero can also work!
Hu has the arcane tower to burn mana, and you can also call to arms and send them away and split them and they become very fast, if hes using the AM pot to negate the arcane towers effect. You kinda just have to accept you will lose a couple workers. So make sure to counter attack ASAP when start to do this too you…
You need to end him soon it it gets out of control fast!
Orc can always burrow, especially if you have 2 burrows near by for the 5 gold mining peons, with burrow upgrades the burrows them selves are quite strong.
Vs NE you can hide your wisps all over the map in good places hiding in the deep deep trees, or you can just detonate and not give him EXP or heal them in the moon wells, I build my moon wells near the trees for this purpose. Cycle the weakened wisps into the gold mine, if you have the spare micro, its tricky but it can work!
It is strongest vs UD I agree on that.
The best answer is to attack the NE and win early as possible. If your attacking him, hes not running into your base with a solo buffed up warden and FoK ing all your acolytes down, while he creeps his 2nd and 3rd heros up.
Scouting when hes AOW creeping and early pressure is the bane of NE early game! Hit him early and hit him hard and NEVER STOP!!! until hes dead!!
Hope that helps.
So in summery, Try to be pressuring them more!
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NE is indeed strong with efficient, early AOW creeping, good wisp scouting and Staff of Preservation. If left alone they get their 1st hero too lvl 3 rather quickly. The only other race that has that early creeping snowball potential is HU with militia creeping.
Scouting and stopping / harassing their early AOW creeping, Have Dust of appearance. They are weakest on T1 when they are trying to creep their 1st hero too lvl 3.
Pressure pressure Pressure!!! Tempo is the key here! Be on their side of the map, dont let them creep, attack them and never let up, Dust at night. Day time is best time to finish them off!
Hit their 2 AoL as they are building… dont let them get the AoLs up! Keep attacking to deplete his moon wells.
Pressure pressure pressure! Try to win early!
Warden only gets nasty with levels and lots of items…If shes gotten to that point, you didnt pressure them enough…
I find that DH mana burn and KOTG entangle, Naga slow arrow, with massed hunts/ archers is far more nasty in the early game for straight up value!
Us Warden players are trying to keep you on your side of the map, with the Warden worker harassing while we Creep our 2nd and 3rd heros up, and mass an army to come and crush you.
We are stacking stat items and mana pool items + consumes to spam as much FOK as possible which had GREAT AOE value in the army battle!!
Dont let us “ play our game “ force us to “ play your game “ Attack early and keep the pressure on as much as possible! TEMPO TEMPO TEMPO!!!
Its not a guarantee to always work buts its probably your best bet/ tactic to stop them. Some times we just face opponents that are just better then us, is what it is…
Hope that helps.
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Yes, now I often 4v 4, found that Night Elf units are often the most powerful beings, Chimera’s splash does no damage to allies, Acher is the most cost-effective long-range unit, and the construction of fast, high output capacity, the Night Elf expansion is the strongest, Workers Are Best Protected, So It’s Time to Adjust 
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The heavily armoured Huntress allows the Night Elves to have a large group of units larger than human knights in tier 2. Oh, forget, The Chimera seems to be moving faster, and this thing is itself a nuclear bomber, I just don’t understand why they keep buff this thing 
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I agree with you here. I play a lot of mass archers lately… with DR 1st been perfecting my build / timings with it.
I hate it when my opponent swarms all over my archers with MELEE. Lots of grunts, ghouls , footies, GHOULS , raiders. This is in reference to the early to mid game BTW!
So try that… dont let the archers poke away at you from distance.. Close the distance and swarm them Bit#$es!!
Mass chims in 4v4 is a force…. Dont let them get to the mass chim pump factory. As with most things. Pressure, try to end them early before the 3 Chim Roosts start pumping. That can be harder to do than said in 4v4 RT but that should be a goal in mind when facing NE.
The often overlooked unit of NE is the MOUNTIAN GIANT… Its potential for out plays and its pure Beef is hard to match. The force taunt catches sleepy non micro opponents off guard.
Couple the MGs tankyness with a Staff of Preservation.. or 2 lol…. and its a tough time for sure!
Oh ya.. and DUST.. always DUST for the mass archers.. DUST is MUST!!!
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yes, of course. The moon well + wardon’s three skills are nightmare of other races. The requirement of micros of night elf is much lower than other races.
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Since Acher’s health and worker’s health have been increased, it’s hard for AOE skills to do significant damage in tier 2. And Acher itself has 700 yards of fire, which is a nightmare for all melee units and even heroes. I won’t even build any air units, I think I’m facing a bunch of moving arrow towers ，And the night elves have MoonWell，I don’t think I can kill any Night Elf unit in theory, and she can kill me before tier 3 
，So, it’s time to adjust the night elves
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A lot of what you said is True!
The archer is by nature of attack type “ pierce “ vs what armour air units usually have “ light “, an “ anti air unit “. Pierce does 200% bonus damage to Light armour!
So yes, they are moving arrow towers! Tier 2 ranged up grades, the Tier 3 upgrade that gives them more damage.
Air is not the best “ brawl “ unit to take on an army of archers “ head on “ lol
BUT!!! Air to attack their wisp / gold mine and expos is wonderful! One strength of air is Mobility/ Speed and being able to attack from over terrain / water / trees. Use those to your advantage. The ability to pick and choose your engagement location, and time is a powerful asset of Air.
It can cause enough chaos and panic so that they are “ out of position “ on the map.
I think a lot of this game is knowing “ when to fight “ and “ when not too “. If the archer army is deep in the NE base with moon well support and has lots of buildings in the way, and you have lets say lots of Taruren / melee/ casters as Orc.
Perhaps thats not the best fight and you could back off, go creep or go look for a possible exposed expo to hit! OR! Employ some siege in the CATAPULT, to lay siege to them! From a distance, remember to use “ Hold Position “ on your army so they dont run in and “ run wild “ LOL
Now lets take the same unit composition and put the archer army out in the open… like if they are creeping and you come from behind, then said Orc army just stomps all over that NE archer army 99% of the time “ micro pending “ 
Rushing you with mass Tier one units BEFORE you get to Tier 3 tech / units is a very very Valid strategy and I implement it often!
Just remember, the Archer is a weak and frail unit out in the open! Use that to your advantage!
The Archer army player / ranged army player will try to use “ choke points “ to their advantage. Dont fight in a choke point if it looks like a bad fight, backing off is sometimes the best option.
I hope that helps!
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Oh my, a bunch of moving arrow towers - and yes, they have Moon Wells. 
Archers are the weakest units; they can be killed with one sword swing. Moon Wells deplete too fast and are expensive.
Did you realize that Humans have gunpowder units, and Undead are poisonous?
Not to mention Orc Voodoo + mass invulnerability. 
Anyway, we’re talking about the Warden here. As I said in the other thread, she is not too strong - she is too weak. She cannot fight in melee like other heroes. Blink is nice, but when you need it the most, you often can’t use it. And her ultimate, Avatar of Vengeance, is fragile and not outputting enough damage (like Volcano, Starfall, Earthquake), you have to protect the Avatar or dies in two sword swings.
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How do we buff warden with out her getting out of control? I personally think shes fine where she is, her early game short comings are quickly remedied with levels and items.
Play her like a “ caster “ stat items, mana pool items and lots and lots of consumes like AM pot, invul pot and mana pots / Staff of teleportation.
With levels and items, she gets out of control for many of us average players, which is probably why people on here think shes TOO powerful as is…
How do we make her more “ melee “ viable? a small armour buff? FoK is kind of a lore flavor skill from maivie from the lore. I think FoK is very strong, especially with items and mana pots to allow it to be spammed, couple that with a Staff of preservation/ staff of teleportation to drink moon wells and shes an absolute unit in team fights, and as a worker harassing hero.
Blink… I mean blink is OP in any game…. that goes with out saying. It needs a mana cost or else it will be just to dame abusable.
From my experience AoV is pretty good, Its a “ free “ spawned unit that spawns MORE “ invincible “ units. It lasts a very long time and is pretty tanky too me! It just needs some micro to keep alive.
Ive had the AoV stay alive until its next CD is up, just running around the map, causing chaos, killing workers and being very annoying to my opponent. When they come to kill it .. just run it away… now they are wasting time and APM/ attention chasing around a free spawned unit.. LOL The fact they wanna kill it so bad, lets you know how nasty it can get… an AoV in the worker line spawning more units is just GROSS!
Lets just think about this for a minute here… to buff Warden… to unleash that META on the ladder… a BLINKING AOE hero with built in invisibility Its already a niche hero thats used by players with HIGH micro / APM to express skill…. oh man it would be UGLY indeed…
Have you ever faced a good player that goes Blood mage 1st? Uses invis pots / sorc invis with invul pots and staff of teleportation? flame striking your worker line over and over while they mass gryphons / dragon hawks or tanks? while you scramble to protect your worker line? Now Give him a blink…. Thats WARDEN.. ahhaah
Too add…. I think the Warden isnt picked as much 1st, because NEs other options are just straight up better in the early game, and dosnt need as much “ hand holding “ and items to get online… DH… I mean come on… whether you go mana burn 1st for more aggression… Immolate for more creeping power or worker harrassing potential. All he really needs is a Boots of speed. If hes lucky and finds some early game rings of protection / rings of regen, now hes just tanky tanky tanky! An early game DH in your worker line with immolate and a cloak of shadows is just hilarious!!! Love doing that.
KoTG… need we talk about how good he is early game? Entangle guarantees early kills, Trents are a creeping power house. Thorns aura is good vs high DMG melee units and the pesky Blade master..
PoTM… her aura facilitates early tier one rush / massing strategies. Love the owl for scouting / anti blade master tech. Searing arrow 1st for more aggression / harrass.
I wont get into the Tavern heros here… I have lots to say about them LOL
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