Badly controllable what it will hit. Then rather set a max damage amount per interval and distribute the damage evenly if it would deal more.
Just exclude bonus damage in the Critical Strike damage multiplier? Or only include it with a reduced factor?
2 Likes
Another minor thing. Using the new observer UI and selecting a hero unit, the “attack and armor icons”, while hidden, still prompt their respective tooltips. See screenshot below:
https://imgur.com/a/U5NHRn5Edit:
And another minor thing. When selecting a non-hero unit, hiding the “unit selection panel”, selecting a hero unit and then unhidind the same panel the hp/mana bars get messed up:
https://imgur.com/a/tCvayLQThis resolves itself by selecting and unselecting but still looks a bit wonky.
What if we add spell damage protection to the rings of protection, like +3 rings give 3% of spell damage protection, +4 - 4%, etc. If you have 4 rings on your hero, you probly might have about +15% of spell damage protection on an average map - not always and it might not be a big deal.
This can be a serious nerf to UD, but can be wholesome, as rings are almost always an item for sale…even in the late game
Claw nerf is a mistake imo, as well as circlet drop removal
3 Likes
When is Undead going to be receiving actual unit buffs?
Grunts just received bonus HP from upgrade. Archers received +15 HP for free. Ghouls received nothing, they are just as squishy as ever.
Ghouls needed +30 HP from last PTR, but you removed this changed. Instead you nerfed statues several times, nerfed Unholy Aura, frost armor, dark ritual, Orb of corruption, disease cloud, destroyers. When is Undead going to receive actual buffs to their units? Undead should be allowed to play new army compositions like Dreadlord + Ghouls + Necromancers. Instead UD is forced to play DK, Lich, Fiends, Statues, destroyers. And all of this has been getting nerfed yet its still the only way to win games as Undead.
Look at the stats excluding Happys accounts. UD doesn’t even have 50% winrate in any matchup. Undead has the lowest unit and hero variety in the game - you keep nerfing heroes and units without introducing new options.
Dreadlord and Crypt Lord are not worth using now since Statues grant less mana and both heroes are mana hungry. Increase their mana regeneration. Buff Spiked Carapace. Buff Ghouls with +30 bonus HP so that vampiric aura is worth using for the first time ever. Without this, Ghouls are too squishy.
Where is the Necromancer rework? Other races receive buffs on Taurens, Mountain Giants, but Necromancers are still not worth using.
Undead cannot play tier 2 because Undead has no form of dispel until tier 3. Please consider fixing this issue. If you do not, UD will forever be forced to play fast tier 3, greatly limiting their options.
Buff Frost Wyrms. The frost breath upgrade is trash and not worth researching. Please come up with a new utility for this upgrade and make it cheaper. Forst Wyrms need more attack range. Orc batrides need a nerf to no longer prevent UD from ever using Wyrms against Orc. Flying Machines Flak cannones need a nerf, this upgrade is too much. Talons now counter destroyers and have extremely high attack range. How are they allowed to have this much attack range but Wyrms do not?
1 Like
UD doesn’t really have a lot of problems right now, I don’t see the need for all sorts of buffs when their win rates are generally within tolerances.
UD overall win rate (all skill levels) is generally within tolerances. For all levels of play, UD is above 50% against NE and human, and below 50% against Orc, by 1-2% which is not really out of line, i.e. within the probable statistical margin of error
https://www.w3champions.com/OverallStatistics/winrates-per-race-and-map
Seems i havent been getting into enough arguments to keep my link/image posting priveleges.
2 Likes
The thing is, this statistic takes into account the three Happy accounts. But if we exclude these games, the statistics will be disheartening. (If we remove one player of any other race, the statistics for that race won’t change much.)
However, even though Undeads are struggling right now, they have a strong player who teaches them, so they can be left alone.
Currently, Humans need to be strengthened. Strengthen Tier 1, not Tier 3. I don’t know why Tier 3 was strengthened when Human Tier 3 is already strong. Any race humiliates Human in Tier 1.
And Immolation should be nerfed. They already strengthened the strongest hero in the game 
It can creep faster than the opponent with an army in solo. Please, don’t strengthen the Elves. They can be opened through any Altar or Tavern hero. They can gather any mix of units. They have tremendous potential that is simply not fully explored. Please strengthen Human Tier 1. The games have become uninteresting without a strong Human Tier 1.
HU Balance:
Scout tower:
Armor increased from 0 to 1 (scout towers are extremely squishy, this would help a bit)
Peasant:
Armor increased from 0 to 1 (will not affect militia)
Mountain King:
Clap damage increased from 60/110/150 to 70/120/160 (nowadays humans usually go for panda if they need AOE dmg, this slight clap buff would make MK more playable)
Paladin:
Devotion aura armor reduced from 1.5/3/4.5 to 1/2/3, but movement speed increased by 0.05/0.1/0.15 (*still less than DK/TC aura, but would help a lot, *
especially since the devotion aura is rarely a choice)
Muhahahha you kidding right? The moment BM gets to level 4, it’s doing 200+ Critical DMG, which is pure damage, and cost no mana, and you can literally do 400 dmg in 1 second with 2 consecutive crits.
BM is absolutely insane.
You also have Wind Walk that are free maphack and gives you insane map control, it also doing high DMG as well.
BM also having the highest starting armor in the game, and also the highest starting DPS. And not just starting, but at any single given level.
Mirror Image currently it’s also extremely powerful and it’s used in pretty much every matchup.
You maybe need to start watch some high quality matches, h?
BTW, DPS chart for level 1 just for example:
DH - 40,23 DPS
BM - 40,97 DPS
DK - 19,78 DPS
This is at level 1. The picture at level 10 is insane.
If anything BM needs to be nerfed. Critical is way too strong. Wind Walk should also have a CD, and that CD should be after you walk out of WW. Currently the CD is way too low.
Orc currently it’s on par with Elf as the strongest race by far.
UD is the weakest race by far as well.
ORC Stats:
52.6% against HU
51.2% against UD
48.8% against Elf
48.6% against RDM(highest)
Elf Stats:
55.5% against HU(Completely broken)
51.2% against Orc
51% against UD
46.4% against RDM
UD:
45% against HU(completely broken)
48.8% against Orc
49% against Elf
41.2% against RDM(lowest of all race)
This is on 2200+ MMR on Grandmaster level
This stats are with all 3 Happy accounts that are on the first 3 spots.
Removing them, and UD will be on the low 30%.
“Fixed an issue that prevented users from creating 512x512 custom maps”
Is this really the map dimensions or do you mean the map file size of 512 MB?
Eh Kaho disagree with you. Firstable ELf players expand, cause they have the easiest expand that doesn’t slow their build at all. They can expand and tech at the same time.
That’s why they expand, to have an easy game, by beating the opponents not by better micro(everyone knows that Elf players have the worst micro by FAR), not by better strategy, but with better economy.
Kaho beated 120 who is way better player overall in all aspect without single expand. He dominated 120 2-0 like yesterday in the TP League May.
Elf can just play Dryad/Bears with DH/(plenty of options for second hero, Naga, Panda, etc) and be perfectly fine, as they counter Fiends/Destro, just like Fiends/Destro counter the Dryad/Bears. It’s all going down to who have a better early/mid game and play better. But this strat is heavily micro dependent, and that’s why Elf players don’t goes that route mostly, cause simple as that UD players, aka Happy and 120 have hands down the best micro in the game.
Elf currently is way stronger than UD.
Also if we going to nerf Nerubian Tower, how about we nerf MoonWells healing as well? Nerf Orcs Burrows as well ?
Every tower in the game has different purpose. UD can’t defend their workers well, that’s why they have slow in their tower. But Nerubian lose effectiveness late game.
Nqh, Paladin Devotion Aura is already super strong. HU also doesn’t need extra movement speed, as they have Sorcs that haves huge slow, and Knights are super fast, as well as Gyros.
You also slows in the Clap, and huge disable in the Storm Bolt.
So movement speed is absolutely no needed.
I agree on the Clap part though.
HU currently are besting UD by far, but they s***** vs Orcs and Elf.
So changes must be done into that direction.
The main problem with HU are they are giving way too much mapcontrol, and they are to prone to creepjack. They can’t do anything against good Orcs.
I would absolutely say that Priests/Sorcs needs a bit of buff.
And maybe gives MK +1 agility.
This game is balanced at highest level.
You can’t compare novice players and balance the game around them.
Again you should be watching 2200+ MMR, aka Grandmaster. Even though there is level apart 2200 player to 2500+ for example.
And stats are quite different at 2200+, hasn’t they:
Nice try to:
ORC Stats:
52.6% against HU
51.2% against UD
48.8% against Elf
48.6% against RDM(highest)
Elf Stats:
55.5% against HU(Completely broken)
51.2% against Orc
51% against UD
46.4% against RDM
UD:
45% against HU(completely broken)
48.8% against Orc
49% against Elf
41.2% against RDM(lowest of all race)
This is on 2200+ MMR on Grandmaster level
This statistic takes into account all players that are using and playing on W3C, it’s not just Happy and Happy is not the only person that matters. Whats important is if most people are having trouble. Play styles are different at the highest level of play so statistics can be quite different and it doesn’t necessairly mean there’s a big problem.
That being said, the currently available statistics are all well within tolerance at all levels of play. W3C Grandmaster is an anomaly here because there doesn’t really seem to be enough players in that MMR range to get good data. But if I select master and anything below that, UDs win rates look fine except vs Orc where they’re kind of low (but not severely).
I’m really tired of people saying “Game is broken because happy didn’t win.”
Most people are not Happy, and one person’s games are not enough to base balance-altering game decisions on. One person, no matter how amazing they are and worshipped they might be by the community, is not capable of providing enough data to be reliable enough to make good decisions on. At the bare minimum, the scope needs to be “all skilled players” not just Happy or the top 10 players in ]insert famous tournament here[.
It clearly isn’t, because the balance is and has been better at “normal” levels of play than at pro levels for a very long time. And balancing only based on professional play for a video game is not a great balancing strategy, as it can often create problems for the vast majority of your playerbase who can not play at that level. Even pro IRL sports i.e. football basketball etc. make rules adjustments for different levels of play. The only complication here is video games don’t always use seperate rulesets as it feels artificial. However, some games do factor in all players. Despite League of Legends being played professionally, they do make balance adjustments that are targeted to improve the experience for average players, not just high skill players or pro players.
But for the IRL example, take basketball. The three-point line is closer to the hoop at lower levels of play i.e. high school level and the height of the hoop is lower, these differences accomodate the lower level of experience as well as lower average heights of the players. These are technically balance differences. Different levels of play don’t always adopt rules changes made at higher levels of play either. Non MLB baseball hasn’t implemented the pitch clock yet, for example. Not every rule or balance attribute is suitable for all levels of play in any recreational activity.
Yes you can. Many games do this all the time and it works well enough. By looking at data from all players, Riot is able to identify cases where a Champion might be performing well at one level of play and not another. They are then able to craft a balance adjustment that will improve the experience for one group without significantly altering it for the other.
Often the situation is a champion that is too strong / weak in pro play due to it having a skill set or specific skill that has a particularly strong or weak skill requirement to maximize, So an adjustment might be made to a high skill ability to make it less punishing for sloppy aim or timing or whatever the issue is, such that both pro players and non pro players can have a good experience with the champion. In other cases, an easy champion might turn out to be too good in pro play even though it’s fine at low level play, and they carefully tailor their balance adjustments to nerf it for pro play without having too much of an impact elsewhere.
War3 doesn’t have quite the same level of complexity in its game mechanics so really, if League can do it, War3 should be able to do it with less effort.
The sample size is insufficient. There are not enough players and not enough games in this MMR range for a good data set.
Dropping it even to Master expands the data set drastically and gives us much more usable data. And as of this post, all win rates for undead are above 50% except versus random (which makes zero sense, so I suspect we’re still light on data at this MMR)
UD’s win rates are totally fine outside of W3C Grandmaster, and as I said, that MMR range has such a small sample size win rates are going to vary significantly just on a week to week basis, let alone the long term.
Feel free to engage me so I can get my pic and link posting ability back. 
1 Like
Yeah it is. If you have any knowledge, you would seen Blizzard have been copying 90% of Remo suggestion.
And his suggestion is based not even on high level, but at PRO level.
And yeah every game should and is balanced at highest possible level.
Every FPS games, BR, Strategy games, RTS, and so on are balanced either at highest level or at PRO level.
They may change some cheese strategy, that makes a lot of players frustrating at lower level, cause they have no idea how to counter it, but just that, their main focus is PRO level.
Main focus on balance is again the highest possible level, otherwise you going to break the game completely.
And again i stop reading the moment you try to brings real Sports into video games …
And Mobas are also balanced at PRO, High level.
I can’t comment on every single Moba, cause i don’t play them, but i can for Smite and Dota. So many frustrating Heroes to play against on Lower level and constant crying, but there is no problem at high level, and this heroes stay the same.
P.P. And even Sports are balanced at PRO level. They even change some amateur stuffs to be alike to the PRO, so they can make the transition easier.
Again, no game do this. Maybe only some MMORPG, that cares about Casuals players only, and have zero player skill-based nature.
Every competitive game, balance their game at high level.
Warzone, Apex, CS, Fortnite, Dota, Smite, Valorant, Overwatch, Quake games, Fighting games like MK, Tekken, SF, and etc.
Starcraft and SC2 as well.
If you don’t balance the game at highest possible level, you are going to get a broken game balance wise with totally broken strategy.
Because people at certain lower level are just not good enough and cry about everything. They just cry oh this is broken, this is broken, and start changing stuffs because player is not good enough, is just unreasonable, and you will lose your good players.
You are obviously a casual player, which is nothing to be ashame of it. At this stage of my life i’m playing casually Video Games as well.
Nothing wrong with that.
But still i understand why the game is and should always be balanced at High Level.
Just because i can’t defend against certain strats, doesn’t mean this strats are broken, and me want to change them, cause i can’t put enough hours into the game or not been good enough to defend against them, or just don’t know how, which is the most common thing.
Again you can argue as much as you can. Neo have interviewed SC Developer, and while he mention that they may change certain lame strat that are hard for some people to defend against, the main focus on the balance is at Highest Possible level.
And LOL is completely different genre bro, stop bringing it into RTS.
You cannot compare a MOBA genre and system to a RTS.
And i read a Dev article about League of Legends, where they are saying they are balancing their game depends on the ranking. But their focus is STILL PRO LEVEL.
LoL is a big E-Sport title, and their focus is always going to be on PRO plays, so nice try again, but you wrong again.
P.P. Can’t post a link, but anyone can check google for LOL Pro player balance and see the true …
This isn’t even close to being true. As I already explained, big name MOBAs and other team multiplayer games are balanced for everyone, not just pros. I’m not going to write it all out again. League for example has a number of champions that are great in pro play and suck in other player segments, as well as vice versa, and it’s a constant struggle for them to balance the game to minimize the extent to which that is true, because if it isn’t balanced for everyone, it isn’t really balanced at all.
This is entirely false. Games are balanced such that as many people can enjoy them as possible in the vast majority of cases. If you only care about pros, well, that’s all you’re going to get, and no game can sustain itself on only its most elite.
I’ve seen multiple MMOs for instance, try to target the most hardcore of their potential customer base. None of them exist today? Why? because they didn’t have enough players.
Do you even know how many 2200+, aka Grandmasters are to say the stats are irrelevant ?
Cause there is plenty of players at that level.
Masters level compare to 2200+ level of play is like a days and night.
Like me playing against newbie in Apex or CS:GO i will beat the guy 100-0.
So this is the actual irrelevant stats.
And where exactly UD rates are fine ?
Platinum and Dimond, UD stats are terribly, if we going to use some lower rank, which is actually ridiculous, because they don’t play the optimal way.
Another lie from your side is that there isn’t enough 2200+ Players, as there is 70+ players that are on 2200+ MMR.
Which are more than enough to gather a proper stats.
Yes. All you have to do is look at the wild variations in the percentages, there is absolutely no way there are enough games played for those rates to accurately represent the state of balance. It’s alright to admit you have no understanding of statistics and sample sizes.
This is NOT an adequate sample size lol. It’s not a lie, you just can’t accept that this isn’t a statiscally large enough number.
Say you’re a big company and you take a survey to determine the popularity of a bunch of different things (in many ways, this is a popularity contest anyway). If you were the one responsible for carrying out the survey and you only asked 70 people, you’d be laughed out of the office when you turned it in.