Warcraft III: Reforged PTR - Version 1.35.0

That can be abused to switch to the required attributes just in time and at the same time is bad to micro manage if you have multiple of those. Also, there is no indicator what state the Circlet is in at the moment other than looking at the bonus stats of the hero, which can be quite opaque when the hero has multiple bonus effects. Would it not be better if the Circlet just awards the additional 1 stat to the hero’s main attribute? (but then, it should be adapted when the main attribute changes like due to some morph technically)

It is also unintuitively toggling from bottom to top instead of top to bottom and it does not retain its configuration when the item is dropped/passed. Is this intentional?

The ability is furthermore labeled Unknown in the World Editor and has no configurability. Is the bonus value hardcoded?

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Happy to see that there’s something new stirring in the PTR!

One change I’d like to see tried out is nerfing magic immunity in a similar way to how DOTA changed it for ancient creeps/catapults 4 or 5 years ago. Make it so (previously) magic immune units can be hit by spells, but they take 90% reduced damage from it. Of course this might make units like Sorceress much stronger against Night Elf.

Magic immune units are just insanely good (including mechanical units) with little counterplay against them. Orc has the privilege of Ensnare being a physical spell, but other races don’t have an answer (UD web being the only other thing that comes to mind).

In the patch, some kind of nonsense, sorry. In general, the game is close to balance. I am not a professional player, I do not have enough time and reaction speed, but at the same time I follow the game of 2005 and I can describe the weaknesses that need to be slightly improved and everything will be ok.
Improve militia over time. This will give expansion, tower rush, macro and micro play, expand strategies against all races.
Headhunters are too strong. 150/25 gold/wood would be a good choice.

Your changes to Endurance Aura and Unholy Aura are good for Humans and Elfs, but will reduce game dynamics and remove Orc and Undeath traits. It is better to slightly improve the slaves and the militia of the human, and the elves are already overbuffed.
Return the last moonwell buff.
Ultravision requires tier 2.
And that’s it


Blizzard, if you are taking suggestions from Remo for balance changes…please, for the love of all that is good, holy, and just in this world…do NOT nerf Bears down to 920 HP. I promise you this will break the entire elf race.

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You are just a noob, that can’t understand this game. Start play LOL pls :wink:

UD has the worst expansion of all races, the easiest one to cancel, and you want Blizzard to nerf it even more, so UD to be entirely unplayable ? Are you kidding me ?
You can cancel UD Gold Mine with just 2 Level 2 Wolves or with lvl 2 treants …

If anything UD expansion need a buff.
Elf > Orc > UD > HU. Currently.
Back in the day UD was dead last. But i didn’t see people cry back in the day that UD was trash, when Orc vs UD was basically free wins for the Orc.

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sorry random noname nub if u have ladder trauma from me , there’s support groups for you ,take care

It’s amazing how delusional and self-deceptive ppl can be still after sitting on this patch for 2 years.

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That’s insane. The damage per second is thereby tripled on level 1, already stronger than the previous level 3 and level 3 does 50 damage per second, burning everything to the ground. Also the tooltip still says it would be 15/20/25 damage >per second<.

Circlet stats reduced from +2 to all stats to 1/1/2 but players can click to toggle the item to add an additional 1 stat to any attribute.
This is silly.
The hero has boots of dexterity +3 Belt of strength +6 and 2 Circlets. AND? click and count? And if you transfer it to another hero, click again? This is not DotA, where there is only one hero and there is nothing else to do.

So nice to see two patched close together!
Overall nice to see some well deserved balances.
I’d sugest a futher review on the following:

  • Bloodmage it is not a very used hero, siphon is strong and the mana cost may present a heavy penalty, mostly on lvl 1
  • Tank changes will hardly work. Any piercing damage will easilly take it down… and it shines as anti air and mostly against buildings, no harm in attacking units but it’s not the point
  • UD statues are better than lvl 3 brillance aura… this is a bigger concern than its lvl (which should be 4)
  • Nice to see buff on Immolation, but care with intervals
  • Maybe 20g and 5 extra lumb to headhunters is enough

Congrats for the effort!

Alright, first and foremost: the Demon Hunter is now broken. DH with Immolation can melt anything besides air units in their paths now. 30 DPS at level 1, who thought this was a good idea?

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When are you guys going to fix the damn custom game lobby chat bug???
It’s by far the most annoying and exploitable bug there is. Change slot over and over and no one can type, and no one will ever know who is abusing it…

Dear Blizzard,

Firstly, I would like to thank you for your efforts and hardwork that you put into our favorite old game. Some of your suggestions are just great, but others might literally crash the game. Dear Blizzard, please, consider taking my thoughts and notes on the balance patch. My nickname is RazerMoon and I am one of the best players in both - North and South America. (Probably top-2 usa player after Hitman).

Please, be so kind as to review my notes and thanks again for the time you put into actually helping our small community and finally making a balance patch.

Hopefully, you would understand my unwillingness to comply with some caster’s opinion because I believe it might have a strong influence on the pro-scene of WC3. In the end, I want all 4 races to be balanced and everyone to be happy.

Some people suggest nerfing the bears to 920 hp. DO NOT DO THAT. That along with ghoul and grunt buffing, moving ultravision, nerfing keeper will actually break the night elf race.

Now let’s go to the actual changes.


  • Blacksmith lumber cost reduced from 60 to 50. -

That is a good change. Maybe it’s going to bring more balance for the “rifle push” against orcs/nelfs. However, nelf-hum match up in the current state on top level has a statistics of 52.% favoring night elf. Therefore, I think it is a good change…

.* Peasant HP increased from 230 to 240.

  • This change is questionable because it is meant to help hum-ud match up, however, there’s a problem with ne-hum match up now. Warden would need 2 hits with orb + fan lvl 3 in order to lame human peasants (a necessary gameplay for elf to compete vs human in the top scene). There could be indirect nerfs to the warden play during the anti-magic duration on the peasants. Therefore, a warden buff fan additional +10 dmg to level3 fan of knives would be needed to rebalance the hu-nelf MU if this update is to take place.

.* Control Magic moved from T2 to T3.

This change might actually break one of the hu-orc strategies for human. Now human cannot proceed playing spell breakers and would instead be forced into playing 4 priests instead. It’s hard to say if that’s a positive change at all. It needs way more testing and speaking to the actual pro-players for implementation. So let’s test it for now, but later it might be needed to be reversed. Considering hu-orc match-up being at 44.1% win rate at grandmaster level of W3C, this is actually an unwanted change.

  • Siphon mana cost increased from 10 to 20 mana.

This change is rather positive because 10 mana is basically no mana, this way it might bring some mindful use of that ability.

  • Siphon Mana Drain rate reduced from 15/30/45 to 15/25/40.

Since level 1 ability has never been fixed, this would be more or less the same ability. Questionable, but I think it’s a step in the right direction.

  • Holy Light cooldown reduced from 5 to 4 seconds.

This change can be extremely dangerous. Holy light is 65 mana, which is not changed for 75, unlike warden’s shadow strike or dk’s coil. Therefore, this might bring a whole new strategy for laming undead players. Paladin becomes a counter-pick for lich and ud’s fast expo. I think along with changing the CD of the ability, it needs the increase the actual use cost to 75 mana. However, on the reverse side of things, pala is hard-countered by crypt lord on the undead’s side of things. So tests would be necessary to determine.

  • Polymorph cost reduced from 220 mana to 200 mana.

It would not make any significant difference, so I think this change is unnecessary.

  • Mechanical Critter sight ranged increased from 350 to 500.

This is another unnecessary change. I highly doubt this does anything to the actual gameplay.

  • Siege Engine now has heavy armor.

This one is actually a terrible change. Heavy armor tanks are useless vs undead and night elf players. 3 archers can kill a tank now. Even though I’m a nelf player, I don’t want humans to be underpowered. I want the game to be balanced and therefore tanks need to be REWORKED. They would need to have fortified armor.

  • Siege Engine can now attack units.
    The whole concept or idea is actually cool, however the implementation is terrible. It might be better if they have 2 different attacks, one for buildings, another one for units. This would be somewhat balanced.

  • Siege Engine base damage reduced from 44 to 22.

Unnecessary change. It rather needs to have 2 different attack types, one for buildings, another for units.

  • Siege Engine barrage damage increased from 14 to 16.

Okay, makes the unit better against mass air style.

  • Mass Teleport Cooldown increased from 20 to 30 seconds.
    Needs testing, generally I think this is a positive change.

  • Mortar Team HP increased from 360 to 380.

A good one.

  • Siege Engine no longer decreases in unit level when getting the barrage upgrade.

Fixed the bug from the previous patch. Good one.


  • Headhunters cost increased from 140 to 160 and lumber cost increased from 20 to 30.
    That’s a positive change because orc-hu MU is broken. This might help human players to actually be able to determine the winner of a game by skill rather than ultra-imba HH.

  • Blademaster Mirror images now do 10% of the Blademaster’s base damage.
    ~ Questionable. I think it is completely unnecessary considering other night elf changes. I think this change needs to be removed.

  • Endurance Aura movement speed bonus reduced from 0.1/0.2/0.3 to 0.1/0.15/0.2.
    A positive change considering grandmaster level late games where human or nelf cannot compete with Tauren Chieftain’s move speed and excessive base laming.

  • Witch Doctor Healing Wards increased from 5 to 10 HP.
    This change needs to be reversed because it only affects the amount of mana a destroyer would get from dispelling a healing ward. Only favors undead players.

  • Stasis Trap activation delay reduced from 9 to 7 seconds.

I personally don’t think this is a necessary change as well. Better not to make any changes.

  • Brute Strength bonus increased from 100 to 150 HP.

This one might go heavy on night elf players including the ghoul buffs and the keeper nerf. I think you need to actually buff keeper or leave it as it is in order to implement this change. It would also go heavy on human players. This is another example of a terrible balance change that might make the game one-sided.

Night Elf

  • Tranquility cooldown increased from 60 seconds to 120 seconds.
    That’s definitely a positive change. First of all, 60 seconds seems to be literally imbalanced. I truly think that the keeper’s ultimate needed to be changed and now it’s balanced. Good job on this one.

  • Starfall cooldown reduced from 180 seconds to 120 seconds.
    Unfortunately, despite the fact that it is a positive change due to the ultravision removal the only match-up where potm could’ve been played as a 1st hero and then likely to get lvl 6 – nelf mirror. However, due to the ultravision nerf, this is not any useful.

  • Starfall mana cost reduced from 200 to 150 mana.

Same as the previous one.

  • Druid of the talon crow form now does piercing damage.
    This is questionable. From one side, it brings new strategies and meta, which is always interesting to see. However, I am afraid this might be OP. Needs testing.

  • Entangle duration on units reduced from 9/18/30 to 8/16/24.

This is a truly terrible change. Along with ghoul buff, grunt buff – this one actually makes keeper less playable vs all the races, especially undeads. For example, lvl 3 keeper and lvl 2 entangle ability would’ve required 3 to 4 hits on a footman for it to die. Now, it requires 5 to 6 hits, which makes the hero less playable and powerful vs human. Considering 2200 mmr + ne/hu winrate, which is 52% favoring night elf players, this might actually be big and I think needs to be reverted. Along with ghoul/grunt buff – this is actually breaking nelf gameplay. Nelf statistics vs undead player on grandmaster level (W3C 2200+ mmr) is 46.9%. By nerfing keeper we might crash it into 40%, which is FAR AWAY from being balanced.

  • Thorn Aura increased from 0.1/0.2/0.3 to 0.15/0.30/0.45.

This is a positive change because it would be an equivalent of dread lord’s vampiric aura for the air ne-ud fighting. This is actually a positive and balanced change that might bring the winrate to 50% on pro scene.

  • Mountain Giants now start with +2 armor.

This one needs to be reverted due to the nerf which is the next fix:

  • Harden Skin damage reduction reduced from 12 to 8.

A terrible idea to do, MG’s gameplay and overall still make them less powerful T2 and now they become not that useful on t3.

  • Ultravision now requires tier 2.

This is the MOST questionable out of all. It actually breaks potm-hunts/keeper-hunts t1 play. It is “intendant” to fix orc-nelf balance. However, this match-up current state is 53.5% favoring nelf players. That 3.5% difference might be in just hp buff for grunts. However, it might be needed vs undeads with kotg-mass hunts strategy and push expo due to winrate of 46.9%. Therefore, I find it questionable. Either nerf undead or remove this change.

  • Immolation mana drain reduced from 7 to 5.

This is the most interesting change. To begin with, I need to say that unless keeper is actually nerfed, we might not need this change. However, if you proceed to nerf the keeper (specifically entangle), we need a new meta hero, which might be a demon hunter. However, if you listen to remo’s suggestion to make immolation deal w/e he says like 7x2 per second, that immolation becomes absolute and complete garbage for the amount of mana it actually consumes, it used to be 7 mana per sec, now its 10 mana per sec but higher damage. Due to the moon well healing insufficiency, in remo’s suggestions this becomes unplayable.

  • Immolation Damage per Interval increased from 10/15/20 to 15/20/25.

This is something that needs a change, however, you need to change it exactly to 66% of what it does right now. In other words, it needs to be 10/15/20, including 0.5 perc time. If you actually nerf it to the ground, along with a keeper nerf, night elves would struggle against buffed ghouls/grunts. All three of those changes come together and we need to understand that an immolation DH is the DH that has either mana burn or evasion. Without evasion, it cannot tank the creeps, without mana burn – it would take far more damage from nuking. Due to the nature of this ability and night elf’s gameplay around the moonwell mana juice, a middle ground for it would not be at 50% (as remo says), but rather at 66%. We want it to deal 20 dmg/sec, with 0.5 interval (10 dmg x 2 times per second). Otherwise, you need to cancel the keeper nerf (or even slightly buff its current entangling roots).

  • Immolation Duration reduced from 1 to 0.5 seconds.

This is a positive change for the new gameplay because otherwise that spell is useless at all levels, including level 8 DH.


  • Anti-Magic Shield can now receive the same summon magic damage inflicted by dispel, purge, and abolish magic.

Firstly, this spell doesn’t work on the PTR as written down. Secondly, this would make human late game mass gryphon strategy OP vs undead players. This needs to be reworked. Maybe a different interpretation is needed.

  • Unholy Aura movement speed bonus reduced from 0.1/0.175/0.25 to 0.1/0.15/0.2.

A positive change for the late game ud-ne, ud-hu dynamics. Also balances the orc-ud along with the TC’s endurance aura change.

  • Animated Dead corpses can now be killable and have diseased cloud if researched.
    This ultimate for a long time has been useless. It could be potentially used only against warden’s ultimate so her avatar doesn’t summon more units. Basically, this update makes it even less useful. I think this needs to be reworked and rebalanced. It could be dispelled now, which makes it awful (btw you get xp for dispelling! :D)

  • Ghoul Frenzy now adds 30HP to ghouls’ base health.

This is one of the things I disagree with MOST. If you nerf immolation as Remo suggests, along with current nerf of keeper, this might be really dangerous. UD-NE match up on high level heavily favors undead players. Especially fast expansion play. There are literally players, who made their careers putting on a fast expansion. Along with this ghoul buff, it is going to be nearly impossible to hold undead’s timing push for both night elf and human players. We want this change to be removed completely due to grandmaster winrate on 2 matchups:

Night Elf vs Undead 2200+ mmr (W3Champions stats) - 46.9%

Human vs Undead 2200+ mmr (W3Champions stats) - 44.7%
I see no point of making undeads even more broken. They are already TOUGH to play against.

  • Disease cloud reduced from 90 to 75 seconds.

A positive change because this used to hurt human and nelfs most. 90 secs is way too long and imbalanced. 75 is more reasonable and maybe it even needs to be 60 secs instead. Needs testing, but so far so good.

  • Obsidian Statue level increased from 2 to 3.

Obviously, this is a positive change, however, it doesn’t help the CORE problem of the ud-vs-everyone match up. This upgrade mostly is going to benefit orc players due to their ability to quickly kill statues with ensnare + damage. However, the core problem of the statue is its mana regen. Statue is a t2 unit that apparently is an absolute equivalent of archmage’s brilliance aura level 3. So, for 200 gold, you’re able to get brilliance aura level 3. It needs to be decreased (mana regen specifically) by 33% for balancing.

On top of that, the main problem is LICH+Fast Expansion. It hurts both, human and night elf players. We need either the sacrificial skull or the nerubian tower nerfed. Either make the skull cost some lumber to buy, for example 40-50 wood. Or you have to nerf the nerubian tower’s slow. That would make it playable for nelf players, including harassing of undead’s expo. Human suffer less from nerubian tower, but lich’s nova is actually imbalanced due to no unit cap and mainly the slow effect the nova deals. Apparently, lvl 3 nova deals the MOST damage out of all permanent skills of the game. The problem is, undeads are able to literally melt bears, knights, etc.

I would like to point out that some people are great casters, but also they are undead players, and therefore, their balance suggestions might be slightly incorrect. We need to ask all four races, and only high-level players. In my opinion, the balance really comes to play only on high-level play. Anyone before the grandmaster league could just improve by better game-understanding and so on. However, the balance really matters on the pro scene. Currently, we are having an undead patch. Some casters say that “yet some top nelf players, like LawLiet and Moon and Kaho have NOT yet figured out how to beat undead players like 120 or LabyRinth”. But this balance has been in-game for 2 years and I hardly believe that apparently all the nelf players are stupid and uncreative and just “can’t” win undeads on the professional scene. This topic could extend to human players as well. They need some changes to actually be able to compete. The winrate that could be called balanced is ONLY 50% overall, not when it is one-sided as if right now. Therefore, we want the game to be actually BALANCED, and not IMBALANCED towards EITHER side, including my own race, which is nelf.

Please, take into consideration my voice and therefore a lot of night elf player’s voices. We literally rely on you and spend days and months playing our favorite game. We want it to be balanced. Please.

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What is the point?
They still be as good as they are now. 6 hhs is 120 additional gold and 60 additional lumber. I can just skip the first weapon upgrade and do the same build. Everyone will still complain about it.

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Why you give us a balance patch that nobody asked for? Total incompetence.


“Tavern Revive cost increased by 5% at all levels”
need 15% as minimum, obviously. Only tavern res in every late game

Great, a balance patch, realy nice to hear. :slight_smile:

I just want to mention UD need some more nerfs:
→ Nova Castrange is waaay to big, you can basically cast it across the complete screen. Should be reduced to somewhat of attackrange or maybe coilrange.
→ Slow effects are way to strong for undeads. Nova lvl3 slows for 8s and has 8s cd. Also Nerubian tower slow is way to strong, you basically can’t attack an undead base with 50pop or below if their is a single nerubian tower. No other race has such strong towers.
→ Lich in general is to strong. In a game Happy vs 120 they kinda insta gg when the enemy gets lvl5 Lich.

Also: Buff humans! They suffered for so long now, please buff them more! I am saying this as an orc player, but lover of the scene and esports specially.


The current sight distance adjustment of 1900, 2400 and 3000 is very unreasonable!
For example, most of our players like to set up the 2100 zoom, but the current games cannot be set up.
Please add more detailed ZOOM adjustments.
In addition, the mouse wheel button for sight distance adjustment is easy to encounter in the game. Please add the function of disabling secondary buttons in the game.
Is there a UI in the classic mode that can eliminate the redundant ones? Same as the HD version!

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Great. Another Copy and Paste Balance Patch from Remo from Back2Warcraft who is completely undead biased. No point playing this stupid game anymore when you dont like playing undead.