Warcraft III Lore retconning to match WoW is a terrible idea


#221

And once again, how very cheap way would that be…like Ive tried to tell you so many times, this is COMPLETELY different situation than with Warcraft III, where that game CREATED most of Warcraft’s lore, before that the lore was very basic and thus it could be easily summarised in manual…

This time its completely different, where all those characters that became so loved in Warcraft III would be ALL gone in this story that you would suggest on Warcraft IV, it would be like skipping from Avengers 1 to Infinity War part 2 or from first Harry Potter movies/books to the last one…just how the hell do you think that would be acceptable idea, when clearly Blizzard would have the perfect opportunity to felsh out the story of WoW more in Warcraft IV BEFORE moving on to another events…or alternative choice would be to cover these events already in Warcraft III: Refroged as bonus campaings/DLC, although I would say that is more unlikely to happen. I really dont understand why you think that in the first campaings/game of Warcraft IV these events would be bad idea or why Blizzard wouldnt do so, considering that it would be the perfect way to get everyone up to speed with events, whether or not you have played WoW and WoW players on other hand could enjoy experiencing those events from different perspective and with added dialogue/story, and it would not be any different from how they are adding stuff to Warcraft III: Reforged in terms of lore/story, only that it could be done in even more larger scale…

Again, when Warcraft III came out, it was COMPLETELY different situation, where there wasnt so much lore yet in first 2 Warcraft games, now the situation could not be more different and it would be one big **** you from Blizzard to all those Warcraft fans who did not for one reason or another play Wow and all its expansions throughout all these years “If you want to know what happened before, read the simplied version of WoW’s story from ****ing manual”…just no…and how about those that buy their games digitally, like atleast 50% if not more of PC gamers these days do?..Oh ye I bet your suggestion would be “read the PDF”…

Seriously, it would not be so freaking hard from Blizzard to re-create WoW’s events in Warcraft IV, but apparently you think this would be complete waste of time?


#222

Then you arent solving a problem. You shifted it.

Why would a WoW player be interested in playing through what they already went through? Why would I as a Warcraft RTS fan who played WC1,2,3 AND WoW want to play that in WC4 instead of a new adventure?

Now you are pissing off other fans who didnt miss out. Covering events already happened is called laziness. Blizzard has no new ideas, GG.

If you make an RTS remake of WoW events, you dont slap a ‘4’ in it. You call it something else. Imagine if Diablo Immortal had a 4 on there. Hell, imagine if Reforged was called WC4. It makes a difference!

Plus, you are still pissing off WC3 fans even further by legitimizing WoW lore AS WC4 rather than glazing over it all as backstory for a completely new adventure which can be a soft reset, same way WC3 resets both Alliance and Horde races from what it was in WC2. No gnomes on Alliance, no Forest Trolls, Ogres or Undead magic in the horde. WC4 can soft boot the Alliance to whatever races it wants regardless of WoW. No Draenei, no Night Elves, no Pandaren required.


#223

Sigh, again read what I actually said about Warcraft IV FIRST covering the events of World of Warcraf (this could be done only in the 1st campaing of the first game or cover the events of the first game entirely, then in 2 other games/expansions focus on the events after World of Warcraft) OR again, they could just create additional campaigns on Warcraft III: Reforged covering these events of WoW BEFORE the launch of Warcraft IV…

Nearly every damn person here agrees that the story of WoW could not just be retold in RTS form, but told MUCH better than it ever could be told in freaking MMO game…yet that is also something you dont seem to agree with or ignore entirely…


#224

Not everyone.

There are those who hate WoW lore altogether. The less of that seen playable or explicitly shown in RTS, the better.

You are making an assumption that we needed Lord of the Clans playable to make sense of WC3 and Thrall. How much of that is true?

I am not against WoW veing legitimized or expanded on for Reforged or whatnot. But WC4 needs to distance itself from existing lore enoufh to be able to create its own. All current lore ia baggage for any new milestone game, but that doesnt mean splitting off and ignoring history either.

A new character descended from Anduin and Calia could be the High King. But Anduin has a bastard son with Taelia Fordragon who wants to usurp the High King title. Bam, WC4. WoW is history.


#225

This entirely, and it would be the perfect choice for greedy Blizzard to make some extra money while WoW is still running. The general concensus from the community is that we want an hypothetical Wc4 to continue from where TFT left, one way or another, that’s set.


#226

Yeap, exactly…although if you look at the survey thats been going on, many fans would also want next Warcraft game to be set before events of the previous games and/or Warcraft 1 and 2 era retold…but should that happen, then again the game should be called something else than Warcraft IV. Either way ofc that survey only reflects the opinions of people here, but the consesus from this community, like you said is that most people dont want the story to pick wherever WoW would eventually end…

Either way I also believe fully that as long as the MMO keeps going and keeps making money we wont be seeing WC IV either, the only question is just how long can World of Warcraft keep going…especially considering how Blizzard already seems to be completely out of ideas when it comes to story/lore and where to take it next. Its also interesting how despite all the other gaming trends going on and the MMORPG “trend” pretty much dying (aside from these weak man’s MMOs aka Destiny,The Devision etc that are almost more like co-op shooters with slight MMO elements), WoW still keeps going on like nothing would stop it.


#227

WoW still has it’s loyal playerbase, but it’s nothing like it was let’s say, by the time of WoTLK when it was 10 times bigger, the playerbase is dying and they can’t stop it, mostly cause they have run out of ideas, they even killed off fcking Sargeras for god’s sake (In a very shtty way). I made that question on the survey, and it doesn’t neccesarrily mean they have to make pre-Wc3 content in Wc4, in fact, it would be way easier if they did it on Reforged as Campaign DLC, they can also release some classic WoW histories that way and keep Reforged alive with extra content with these packs. For example, one year from the release they launch Wc1 anniversary DLC Pack, it includes, First War Legacy Campaign retelling the events of the First War from the opening of the Dark Portal to the Fall of Stormwind, Orc and Human Skins from that era to customize your units in melee, First War model pack (regular and special units, buildings and doodads) for the editor, Medivh Archmage Skin, Blackhand Tauren Chieftain (?) Skin, Return of the King Bonus Campaign telling the events on Stormwind following the end of the Third War, from Varian’s dissappearance to Onixia’s and Nefarian’s fall, Stormwind and Dark Horde army skins. And they can release similar packs while they work on the new Wc4, I would pay gladly if they did something like that.


#228

I agree, this is interesting idea. And play to the Lich king in WC3 Reforged it will be an interesting idea, I always wanted to watch the War with the Lich King from a strategic plan, and not the MMORPG, as they used to see


#229

He is ofcourse my favorite thing in Warcraft but please no, leave WCIII as it is and let modding community do the Lich King campaign.


#230

Blizzard pls don´t change the story or dialouge, its perfection is one of the reasons WC3 is still loved. You should´nt change characters because they are now different in WoW, keep them as they were in WC3.


#231

WOW prints money or “used”, that’s all Blizzard cares about.


#232

People that say WoW’s Lore is bad are idiots who look at 2 or 3 cutscenes and listen to Nobbel rant about Sylvanas and think they know what they’re talking about.

The only thing “bad” was Med’an, and he was thankfully retconned out.

Everything else has been consistent. WoD’s story wasn’t even far-fetched considering CoT was in the game since Vanilla, and Bronze dragons/Nozdormu existed in WC3’s time (not ingame, but Alexstrasza/Ysera were mentioned by name in the Nelf campaign).

There’s nothing significantly different between WC3 and WoW, other than Draenei (NOT the Broken) existing in secret on Draenor, and it’s certainly plausible they did based on the novel Lord of the Clans.

In other words, chill.


#233

Hmm… There’s a lot of generalization here.

WoW lore isn’t bad, but need to stop regarding things as ‘good’ and ‘bad’ because those are all subjective values and everyone’s opinion is different.

First off, Med’an wasn’t even WoW lore. He was comics lore and he was never officially regarded in WoW. Phew, bullet dodged for all of us. Sadly, they seem to be incorporating all his cringiness into Anduin with the way they’re writing him… But that’s another discussion for another time.

As far as ‘everything else has been consistent’, I would say that WoW took the lore into a very specific direction. Yes, it is a continuation of ROC/TFT, but it also a massive deviation. Some of it is more acceptable than others, but there are a lot of things they did change for the sake of gameplay.

Forsaken are now part of the Horde under the behest of the Tauren; a move that doesn’t wholly make sense. Druidism is extended to the Tauren within the time after the Legion, explained to ‘always have been this way’ yet this wasn’t the case ever before. Druidism is extended to females as well, and the gender division of the Night Elves is completely disregarded and loosely explained away. A lot of these may be considered a forward progression of all races, but in truth these are all gameplay-driven changes that had to be explained away with lore. We know this because Metzen himself has stated that he intended Druids to be exclusive to Night Elves, and the decision to open them up to Horde came from the Game Designers.

Furthermore, the way classes work also changed vastly. All Shamans use Totems when Totems were culturally exclusive to Trolls. Druids use Moon-based spells, a theme that was reserved to the Priestesses and never seen on any Druids. Warlocks were allowed in both the Alliance and Horde; which goes against every thing the Horde stands for. These are all major inconsistencies from what WC3 originally showed.

My point here is there is a significant difference between WC3 and WoW. They may not intrude heavily on the game, nor are they exactly out of place or bad changes, but we should still respect WC3 as having differences from WoW.

As a thought experiment, if we were to have a 2nd Expansion to WC3, I believe it would look a lot different than WoW. I don’t believe the Forsaken joining the Horde would have been a natural progression from them having gained independence in TFT.


#234

warcraft 3’s lore was so good that it fuled the first 3 WoW expansions.

without warcraft rTs, look where the story is now…LOLOL


#235

WOW lore needs to be shot to the sun.


#236

Good luck with that, son


#237

To the folks curious as to the often mentioned issues with WoW lore, I have written a nice summary.

  1. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2484515-When-did-Warcraft-lore-start-going-down-(10-options-researched)
  2. https://old.reddit.com/r/warcraftlore/comments/bnpgqe/when_did_warcraft_lore_start_going_down_10/
  3. (These are on archive.fo in case they are lose to time.)

#238

I think the community is angry about what turned WoW and now schism at wanting to separate things, as if they were different universes, made by different producers. It’s okay that we do not agree with everything that happened, but the official lore is now like this. And another, a war3 remake (as it was with sc2, and even as was the Age of Empires) would be extremely dull.


#239

Its waaaaaaaaay too late for this. Wow lore is already being used.


#240

The movie exists as separate canon. It can be considered an adaptation rather than a definitive source, similar to Marvel Cinematic Universe or the Lord of the Rings movies.