That is silly. We need to remove the 12-unit cap for melee.
No other changes, however. The OP is weird.
Sorry, my parallels to Starcraft 1 probably obfuscated what I was saying. Itâs far more important to Brood War, I actually donât think it matters in WC3 very much.
What Iâm saying for WC3 is it does not help new players. It will suggest to them to play in a manner that will have them losing nearly every game. Anyone who thinks removing it will make a big difference really isnât looking at all the other far more punishing aspects of the game for new players, and having them think moving their army in one group is okay will only exacerbate these difficulties.
Youâre claiming that having unlimited selection will somehow stop players from learning how to use selection groups. That is false. This wasnât the case in SC2 and is not the case in War3. The good will learn and rise, the bad will fall.
All a unit selection limit does is create a barrier to entry and add zero depth which is the exact opposite of what you want if you want to grow a community.
2 Likes
We donât need to do this cause it will ruin the whole gameplayâŚlike âWhy I need to learn how to use Hot Keys or Tactics? Letâs just spam my units and attack!â
Thatâs stupid and unbalanced
No defence.
Itâs not really a barrier, people are just super stuck on it. Thatâs what Iâm saying. With control groups you donât hit a point where not being able to a-move everything at once impedes you.
Actual barriers to new players are build orders, building placement, creeping routes, items, micro, army/hero comps, etc. A whole wall of knowledge that will be used punishingly against them until they painfully learn it. This is what will turn new players away.
Remove the limit or not, it makes nearly no difference honestly. I just think itâs being scapegoated.
Why do I think that other things will be asked to simplify game other than selection. I donât mind whatever they want to do with it but even when I was newer to the game, selection 12 unit was never a problem to me. Find it weird how much noise that makes
2 Likes
Itâs definitely a barrier and new players will HATE it. Calling it now.
The other things you mentioned just add depth to the game. Choosing when to build what, etc. is good stuff.
1 Like
Then remove it. And then they can hate getting creep jacked and hero surrounded even more, and quit all the same, lol.
Creep jacking and hero surrounds are completely different things. Your argument is basically this:
âPeople will hate creep jacking and hero surrounds too, so thereâs no reason to remove the 12 unit selection limit just because people wonât like itâ
Thatâs not a good argument. There needs to be a reason for something to be in a game. Iâm not going to make a stance one way or another on creep jacking right now, but hero surrounds are not bad for the game (they show a display of skill and can be countered by using your own units to block the surround).
The 12 unit selection limit just makes the game harder for no good reason. Removing it wouldnât even affect real competitive play since pros already know how to deal with the limit using control groups. The only group the 12 unit selection limit affects is new players.
Do we really care if a pro can press 1, right click, 2 right click, and then 3 right click to move his army instead of just select all right click? Does it really matter? I donât think so. New players will probably think itâs clunky and think, âman, what a garbage gameâ
2 Likes
My point is the selection limit is such a non-issue, anyone that has a significant problem with it is going to find plenty of other actual things to bother them, and thus deter them from wanting to continue playing ladder as a new player. Itâs impossible to conclusively prove this obviously, I just believe it to be the case. Keep the limit or remove it, this kind of player will find something to turn them off to the game; theyâre already making mountains out of molehills from the get-go, and there are plenty enough actual mountains in this game to begin with.
This is what theyâll think when they see their wadded up army trying to path around eachother because theyâre all moving in one control group xD
But basically my stance is âthereâs really no reason to remove it, so why do it?â and yours seems to be âthereâs really no reason not to, so why not?â. My main point is just that, keep it or remove it, itâs not the great inhibitor to new players that everyone is making it out to be.
2 Likes
i will never understand this people what is the problem in 1&2 tab group, when you stay at 50 most of the part of the game because of taxes, so that means 2 Control group, CTRL 1 + CTRL 2 is it so hard? or are you really so bad that you need too put all 3 heroes,meele units,range units,mechanical units,flying units in 1Group which is a mess! I know there are many new players comming too Warcraft Reforged many from the rts genre like SC2,AoE,C&C, but this game is diffrent this game is not like SC2 where you make alot units and push the enemy itâs a GAMBLECRAFT thats why they had so much issues with balance in that game, here you got taxes if you go above 50 you get less ressource so you need to be more agressive(or if you have expo u can break it), if you stay 50 or under 50 you got many ressoureses and you find the timing when too go above 50, its great and unique and thatâs why i love Warcraft,Its more a micro game not a macro game like SC2 is, and i see her only SELFISH people only what they want, they dont care about esports,competitve,big names like grubby,moon,lyn,happyâŚetc all this legends who like this game and who made it popular and ofc they want it to stay like the original, but they would something what they want, it makes me so angry i know it will stay same, but this trolls here always opening same topic just because they are bad at the game even if they REMOVE it they will not imporve, just crying about graphics, about this about that!
lol I bet that even the lower levels I could match are absolutely OK with how the game is it is just the Grandmaster posturz on forums
So yea like I told the one above, it is the restraints that cause people to invent tactics the beauty of the game, and the restraints arenât so big, itâs not like SC1âs cant select more than 1 building or workers to spread with 1 right click.
With just being higher level myself not a legendary pro player, I can understand and appreciate this. I suppose these here dont even play melee.
Nah, the 12 unit selection and upkeep system is the thing made wc3 more diffrent than sc2 which this system let us focus more on micro than macro.
But still i would be rlly happy if they add ingame timer and hotkey UI icon in the game both melee or other mode.
Not entirely true. 12 unit selection has nothing to do with it. Itâs an unnecessary limitation and if you lose a single unit in wc3 your enemy will gain exp. So micromanaging your army is what differentiates from sc2.
3 Likes
âItâs an unnecessary limitationâ
Says who?.. You find 100 people who agree with you. Iâll find 100 people who disagree. And we can both sit here all day pretending like weâre both right.
The difference of course, is that this âlimitationâ, as you call it (false premise), whether you want to admit it or not, uniquely defines the game play. They change this, then ANYTHING is up for interpretation.
Where do these changes stop? You may just want this changed⌠but someone else will come along, more annoying than you, demanding that creeps are stupid to have in multiplayer games.
The fact that you guys CONSTANTLY call it a âlimitationâ exposes your intentions, you just want a shortcut so you can win faster⌠and thatâs NOT why you make changes like this. Convenience changes ruin games, and it never stops with just that one change.
There is ALWAYS something else people find to remove or âfixâ that will make the game a little easier for them, and they always come on acting like itâs the END OF THE WORLD if that change isnât made. GAME WILL DIE if you donâtâŚ
1 Like
Have you tried playing sc2 on an old 2002 pc and tried to move your whole army? You would get nothing but lag. The limitation was set to avoid that when the game released. And this was an agrument blizzard made at that time and it was understandable.
2 Likes
âHey Blizz, why canât I level my hero to 30 in multiplayer? Please fix dumb ancient limitation LOL other games I can level to FIFTY. So bad⌠Blizz dumbâŚâ
^ expect 1000s of these types of posts if this is changed.
Now youâre being childish
2 Likes
Iâm speaking truth to you man. Do you not understand how the human brain works? You have 2 dumb monkeys complaining for 3 weeks to get something changed, and a company changes it, you get 100 new monkeys going-
HHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMâŚ