Read it and fix it

It really looks to me like you’re the one who’s “lost,” what with this conspiracy theory of yours and all, which doesn’t even make any sense. What’s the endgame here? What are these “corrupt” people trying to do?

1 Like

I mostly agree with viiksivallu !
Because new maps are NOT tested. IF they test little bit and find out that eg. the tactic to get 10 Red Dragons is Un-beat-able, or walls and portals can exploit other’s weak points than they re-make maps.
Or what I pointed out: one gold Expo is guarded by weak army and other by level 10 Black Dragon , so map is not made to be fair with everyone. (Depending on team’s position).

CaptainJack - Is not conspiracy theory, just that Blizzard DO NOT TEST new maps !!!

And I really must disagree with you too, then. Because we tested them on the PTR. That by definition means they were tested, regardless of what actually came of that.

That isn’t what he’s saying. He is actually suggesting that Blizzard is targeting specific users at a personal level which is just beyond ridiculous. He’s making accusations of corruption with no basis or evidence. That is to say, hes not merely saying these maps are “untested,” he is actually implying that they were deliberately designed this way to screw him/her/them and/or others over personally.

1 Like

But I am also trying to say, viiksivallu is mostly conservative like me, that is NOT a bad thing, and I am sure MAPS are Not tested well.

PTR stuff is just for some people who are Excited that for example Garithos can be recruited, but they are Not pro - players or Game Balance experts.

Give those maps to the big players who won Championships (Moon, Happy, Infy, Foggy, Lyn, Remind, Ted) or Bloggers like Grubby - I am curious what they think about them !?!

I am not making any judgements about political views, as they are not relevant to this conversation. You can be whatever you want to be, that doesn’t matter to this thread.

Again, maybe you missed it, but I never said the maps were good. That isn’t what I was taking issue with at all. I was taking issue with the implication by the OP that the state of the maps in question was a deliberate act to mess with specific people.

The PTR is for testing. Yes, some people just want sneak peeks, but the point is to get feedback. And most of the PTRs have seen revisions after feedback. If no one cared what we thought, they wouldn’t have done that. And you don’t need to be a “balance expert” to have opinions. Everyone’s feelings matter. For instance, a lot of people in this forum will regularly say “GAME IS BROKEN BECAUSE MR. PRO PLAYER IS LOSING,” despite the fact that the issue is only at the pro player level. Different facets of balance affect different segments of the playerbase differently, and thus you need more than just pro player feedback to make good balance decisions, otherwise you only make the game better for some while making it worse for others.

Now is it the best way to do testing? Not by itself, no. It is a good supplement to good internal testing, and I don’t disagree that it’s flawed, but they probably only have one or two people working on this.

(I know its a broken record at this point, but I’m not saying that the maps are good, I’m only saying that it wasn’t on purpose just to make the OP’s life miserable. And I also pointed out the fact that there are workarounds, which they seem to be ignoring.)

1 Like

I did not made politics, I used “conservative” - meaning we like Vanilla, original game released back in 2002 with few modifications (like Garg prioritize) but not with all the imbalances (like making Ud Wagoon push un-counterable by NE-Dryads) !

So Why you keep writing pages, just to offend us? IF you agree, than please Support us!

So again, you agree with our opinion?
Really, Now I would like to know the Champions and best players (like Grubby) opinion on those maps???

That’s not what conservative means. Liking vanilla isn’t in any way being conservative. If you like vanilla, say you like vanilla. Use of any other word, especially longer ones that are more effort to type, doesn’t make sense in this situation.

I’m not offending anyone. I am not here to offend anyone. Disputing something that is factually untrue is not in any way the same as offending people.

No. I’m not affirming nor denying any level of quality of the maps themselves. This is entirely about the notion that there’s some sort of conspiracy at work here. There isn’t one.

1 Like

I did not talked about any Conspiracy !
I just said new maps are NOT well enough TESTED before released in official game.
And again, for major changes, PTR is not enough, so:

  1. really PRO players - should be involved.
  2. game Balance experts - should be involved.

I DIDN’T SAY YOU DID

Man, are you paying any attention here? This isn’t your thread, I didn’t say you were thinking of a conspiracy. You aren’t the person who made the thread thus it isn’t about you.

Also, conspiracy is not a proper noun and is not capitalized.

And as far as balance changes go. EVERYONE should be involved. Not just pros, not just anyone else. This game is for all of us and all of our opinions matter.

It’s not British English? It’s just English lol.

You think our friends across the pond capitalize random words in sentences? No, they don’t.

1 Like

Ok do not start with British English grammar lessons.
Is not my native language…
Anyway, I told both of you: for major changes involve Pro players + Balance Experts from Blizzard.

Didn’t say it was. This isn’t something that just non-native speakers do.

And I told you. Everyone should be involved in balance changes. Not just pros and not just any other specific person or people.

So many people seem to fail to realize that if you only balance for pros, the game is only going to be good for pros- an extreme minority of the playerbase. Any such changes need to be checked to ensure they don’t disrupt gameplay at other levels of skill either. Lower skill players may be such for many reasons. Often it’s not a lack of understanding of gameplay concepts or strategy, but a mechanical skill issue, i.e. unit micromanagement, timing, actions per minute, etc. Thus the question of whether or not this is the issue needs to be asked and considered when deciding whether to adjust something and by how much.

1 Like

Pro’s and Balance expert’s opinions should be stronger than PTR’s opinion’s.
I say Pro’s - because for sure know the game balance + all tricks, and they sure do not want to ruin War3.

Now what do you think about: We 4x of us played 40 min, creeping, than destroying one player from rival team, we also crippled other 2x - so we thought is a sure win, than the fourth of them came with like 7 -10 big red coloured dragons with 2200 life each, and he alone won the game. Our AA = copters + hippos + frost wyrms + fiends failed all.
And why ? Because some map creator with George RR Martin’s mindset made that possible, and nobody Tested it to file that game will be imbalanced !
Yes you could ask: "Why you did not proceed in the same way? " - but Warcrafting is not about that, to exploit maps and easter eggs !

Everyone’s opinions matter. While it is true that someone we would call a pro is more experienced, experience isn’t the be-all-end-all of making decisions. All too often, you meet people who say things like “I’ve been doing this thing for over 25 years” as if it makes them an authority. The problem is, that operates on a not-necessarily correct assumption that they’ve been continuing to learn new things and develop throughout all of that time. There are lots of things that you and I have been doing a long time but that doesn’t by itself mean we know everything about something.

For example, I watched a video where someone emailed in to a lockpicking youtuber. He said he lost the key to his bike lock while away from home. He called a locksmith to open it. When they arrived with an angle grinder, he told them "Could you pick the lock? I have another key at home and dont want the lock destroyed. The locksmith said the lock couldn’t be picked (which is never truly the case). The customer said to him he’d seen it done on youtube, and the locksmith became upset, saying he’d been opening locks for decades and was tired of people calling him and expecting him to “magically open locks in 2 seconds.” The locksmith cut the lock with an angle grinder, and then said if he sent the lock to the youtuber and he could pick it open faster than he got it open with the grinder, he’d refund their money. The angle grinding took a few minutes. The youtuber picked the “unpickable” lock in less than 30 seconds.

The locksmith had been opening locks for 25 years- but he wasnt usually picking them, he was cutting/breaking into them.

The point of this story is that doing something for a long time and being called a “pro” doesn’t mean you know everything.

1 Like

Yes but not in the same way. Often I see posts here like : remove Steam Engines or remove Copters. Because some people cannot counter them.
But what I said about Red Dragons in the post above was completely different. That map is just bad !

Just to laugh a little bit: :slight_smile:

    https://imgur.com/a/ZsufLNF

Well the difference there is those opinions weren’t intended to be serious nor were they truly suggesting they do those things. And usually, it’s pretty clear by their choice of words or the use of emoji.

1 Like

How exactly is the W3C team “corrupt?” I’m not sure you really know what that word means.

Are you trolling or just very dense?

The W3C team changes maps to counter certain tactics just because they don’t like the players who are doing those tactics.

How is that not biased? We are talking about them changing maps to DENY people playing tactics which have been used since the beginning of the game, just because they don’t like the players who are using those tactics.

The W3C team ban players from their platform depending if they like the players or not, it’s not ‘‘same rules for everyone’’ it is ‘‘how much do we like these people’’.

They are biased and corrupted in morals.

If you still don’t understand it, you are either very stupid or trolling as I said, there is no other.

the people behind it deserve credit for trying to help the game

Pad (the guy who created W3C) deserves credit and the early team working with him, but this new team does not deserve any credit.

and I see no evidence of any motiviation for them doing their work besides that.

That is because you don’t know anything, as you yourself said, you don’t use the platform.

But this is the case with you in most of the threads you participate in, you have no clue what you’re talking about.

1 Like

Generally, when anyone asks this question, they’re the one that’s trolling. You don’t respond to someone by being insulting and offensive. You’re just escalating a situation so you can look or feel badass (or something). You respond respectfully with a logcal, rational argument.

This happens in every game, it’s not something the W3C team is doing to troll you. Have you ever played a MOBA? League? DotA? The meta is constantly changing, the community and/or the devs decide something is too good and nerf it or something sucks and they buff it. Then later on, a new hero, map, or mode or something comes out and suddenly X thing that was OP sucks again. Buff it, nerf the other thing, it’s an endless cycle. Perfect balance is impossible. Even chess isn’t perfectly balanced, as even though both sides are identical, the turn based nature of the game means one player or the other will have an advantage.

It’s called balancing (or at least, attempting to do so.) Blizzard does this too. The very idea that this is something special about the W3C team and that they’re doing it to ruin your personal experience is so beyond ridiculous that it’s impossible for me to take you in any way seriously at this point.

There is no conspiracy to ruin the game for you or anyone else in particular. you hate the maps? fine. Hate them. Complain about them. But no matter how much you want to think there is, there’s no conspiracy, no one’s out to get you, etc. etc. etc.

IT IS NOT PERSONAL. Do you REALLY think someone involved with any of these maps knows you and has it out for you just because they don’t like you? I mean really, come on. Just try to say yes with a straight face.

1 Like

You are either a dense moron or trolling.

You are clueless.

I’ve discussed with the admins and they are 100% targeting me and my ally and changing the maps just because of us two, this is a 100% fact, there is no room for argument here, not whatsoever, none, zero, nada.

They have banned people out of bias, for the same ‘‘crime’’ some people get a warning, few day ban or months long ban even if they have no previous ‘‘crimes’’.

This happens in every game, it’s not something the W3C team is doing to troll you. Have you ever played a MOBA? League? DotA? The meta is constantly changing, the community and/or the devs decide something is too good and nerf it or something sucks and they buff it.

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

It’s called balancing (or at least, attempting to do so.) Blizzard does this too. The very idea that this is something special about the W3C team and that they’re doing it to ruin your personal experience is so beyond ridiculous that it’s impossible for me to take you in any way seriously at this point.

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

There is no conspiracy to ruin the game for you or anyone else in particular. you hate the maps? fine. Hate them. Complain about them. But no matter how much you want to think there is, there’s no conspiracy, no one’s out to get you, etc. etc. etc.

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

IT IS NOT PERSONAL. Do you REALLY think someone involved with any of these maps knows you and has it out for you just because they don’t like you? I mean really, come on. Just try to say yes with a straight face.

You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Everything I have stated in this thread is 100% facts.

You have no clue.

hey look, someone’s opening their post with namecalling again! Ignored.

1 Like

Your opinion is wrong. This is not even really a question of ‘‘opinion’’ as much as it is a fact.

Where the opinion part comes in is if you think what they are doing is biased/corrupted (which it is) but I guess in your corrupted mind it is not, therefore you are biased and corrupted yourself.

You’ve been explained how things are, yet you still insist on something else or just simply don’t understand the issue.

Therefore, you are a dense moron or you’re trolling.

It is that simple.