+14 is better
Idk why we cant select 24+ units in 2023 )))) We need it, if not in standart, just add it in custom games pls
1 Like
we need blizzard to fix the no game issues from asia. usually in 1.32 patch it took me less than 1min to find game every each of the match but ever since 1.33+ patch onward i cant find any game. have to rely on USA/Canada player to invite me to get a fast game.
You need to nerf DH to the status of 1.32. Immolation is way too strong. Make the activation 20 mana and reduce the DPS to 10/15/20.
1 Like
First of all, thank you for keeping up with the patches to the game.
We must talk about the propose Human buffs. Human must not get buffed any further. This is consensus among the community and the pro players.
Source: Reddit - Dive into anything
Human started playing Mountain King first and without any buffs they are doing much better. As it turns out Human never needed buffs. All they needed was to stop playing the same strategy and instead try something new.
The changes to Firelord are too much. We saw that Firelord summons quickly take over the game. Keep the reduced cost on his other abilities, but lessen the buffs to Lava spawns.
The Undead changes are welcome. Undead got massive nerfs in the last patch. Now, Undead needs buffs and new fun options.
The Abomination changes are good and go into the right direction. They feel much better now. We will keep testing to see if they need small additional buffs.
The Necromancer buffs are welcome aswell. However, the community agrees that Necromancers need more. They are a niche unit and summoning Skeletons is much better by simply using Rods of Necromancy.
Currently, Necromancers do not offer enough to warrant building the Temple over investing into Tier 3.
There are 2 huge issues for Undead:
-
Undead is the only race without access to dispel until tier 3 and an upgrade. This is simply too late and forces Undead to be unplayable without using Tier 3 every game. This needs to be adressed.
-
By investing into Necromancers, Undead delays dispel. No matter how good Necromancers become, dispel is needed to not lose the game. You just cannot justify delaying dispel for Necromancers.
So, the plan is clear. You need to think about giving Undead access to dispel on Tier 2. You could give it to Necromancers or to Skeletal Mages on Tier 2. Or you simply introduce a new unit to Temple of the Dammned. We suggested this years ago already. Add a unit similar to Spellbreakers for Undead. With a melee attack. With 400-600 hitpoints. Give it dispel (with a very long cooldown) that must Corpses. This is thematic for Undead and fixes this issue.
The Crypt Lord changes are looking good. Please keep the buff to his passive. Crypt Lord beetles need to have their HP nerfs reverted however. Crypt Lord is not playable as a first hero since the nerfs to Beetle Hitpoints. Keep the changes to their collision size.
The changes to Crypt Fiend turn rate are also fine. Please keep them.
Whats missing: Changes to Frost Wyrms.
Wyrms are not even used when Human masses Knights even though they are supposed to be the counter unit.
Wyrms need buffs: Faster train time, less cost but most importantly:
Wyrms need +100 attack range. They have the exact same isse that Orc Headhunters had. Their attack range is simply too low. Wyrms face a number of ranged units which all got buffed:
- Archers were buffed
- Riflemen were buffed
- Water Elemental damage was buffed
- Flying Machines were buffed
- Headhunters were buffed
- Alchemist was buffed
- Orb of Fire was buffed
- Batriders were buffed
To be able to compete with the constant powercreep of ranged units, Frost Wyrms need more attack range. They are simply unusable without it. Please add +100 attack range for them. Then they will be worth using, just like Headhunters.
We have a new update for the Warcraft III: Reforged PTR, with changed based on your feedback and testing data. Will continue to make adjustments and improvements for the next few weeks.
As always, this is a work in progress and is subject to change. Thank you very much for your testing and feedback!
UPDATED OCT. 31
Version 1.36.1 PTR 3
Build 20652
Added / Modified Changes
- Militia duration reduced from 45 to 42.5 seconds
- Bash Bonus Damage reduced from 25/50/100 to 25/40/55
- Devotion Aura reduced from 3/4/6 to 2/4/6
- Priest cast point time reduced from 0.5 to 0.4
- Heal cooldown reduced from 1 to 1.1 seconds
- Archmage strength per level increased from 1.8 to 2
- Paladin move speed increased from 290 to 300
- Mana Burn range reduced from 300 to 250
- Mana Flare max damage reduced from 100 to 80
- Mark of the Talon now only requires Adept Training
- Nerubian Tower Frost Attack reduced from 5 to 3 on for Heroes (Remains 5 for units)
- Dreadlord move speed increased from 290 to 300
- Spirit Walker Build time increased from 33 seconds to 35 seconds
- Spirit Walker Adept Training increased from 45 to 50
- Spirit Walker Master Training increased from 60 to 65
- Tauren build time reduced from 44 to 39 seconds
- Firelord Incenerate mana cost reduced from 6 to 3
- Firelord Lava Split requirement increased from 9 to 13
- Firelord Volcano Damage reduced from 150 to 125
- Crystal Ball moved from level 3 to 2
- Crystal Ball moved from permanent to charged drop table
- Crystal Ball now has 2 charges
- Crystal Ball cooldown removed
- Ring of Protection +3 removed from Drop Table
- Claws of Attack +4 increased to Claws of Attack +5
- Periapt of Vitality gold cost reduced from 325 to 300
- Frost Armor slow effect cast creeps reduced from 5 to 3 seconds
Reverted Changes
- Bash Stun duration increased from 2/2/2 to 2/4/6 (1/2/3 for Heroes)
- Bash Chance reduced from 20/30/40 to 25/25/25
- Druid of the talon cost increased from 135 to 145
- Immolation damaged reduced from 6/11/17 to 5.5/11/7
- Raise dead cost reduced from 75 to 50 mana
Master Changelog
General
- Added Save/Load Functionality back to online games (does not apply to Ranked Matches)
- Enabled the ability to view Hero’s XP bar by hovering the mouse over the bar in the selection panel in Observer Mode
- Added the ability to View Profile for your teammates and opponents in the Tournament Result screen
- Due to instabilities in the campaign as a result of numerous AI and scripting changes we are rolling back changes that were previously made in 1.33
Bugfixes
- Fixed a crash that would primarily happen on the Fall of Silvermoon where a VFX would try playing on a different game thread
- Fixed an issue where voice language and text were not interchangeable
- Fixed an issue where Tech Tree requirements won’t work for custom requirements
- Fixed an issue where custom Item Actions would not work in the world editor
- Fixed an issue where the match processing screen would time out consistently
- Fixed an issue where updating a sound on the Sound Editor would cause an issue with file generation
- Fixed an issue where the campaign would skip scores and then the game client would freeze
- Fixed an issue where campaign difficulty resets to normal on the next level
- Fixed an issue where custom loading screens would not load properly
- Fixed an issue where subfolders in the campaign folder would cause a crash
- Fixed an issue where players would disconnect when trying to retrieve their match history data
- Fixed an issue where Blizzard would be listed as the player list in replays
- Fixed an issue where AT Elimination matches were not being processed correctly
- Fixed an issue where viewing profiles would have no information while the Tournament Results screen is active
- Fixed an issue where the Tournament Results screen would be briefly visible when entering an Elimination game
- Fixed an issue where the countdown until the next Tournament would not properly start
- Fixed an issue where the Escape shortcut was not functional in the Tournament Results screen
- Fixed some issues where users would get kicked from matchmaking as they entered an Elimination game
- Fixed an issue where Elimination Bracket UI lines would not line up properly
- Fixed an issue where Bye victories were not being added to your profile
- Fixed an issue where Allies tab text was inconsistent
Balance
Human
- Militia duration increased from 40 to 42.5 seconds
- Bash Chance reduced from 20/30/40 to 20/20/20
- Bash Bonus Damage increased from 25 to 25/40/55
- Devotion Aura increased from 2/3.5/5 to 2/4/6
- Keep increasing food from 12 to 14
- Castle increases food by 14 to 16
- Priest cast point time reduced from 0.5 to 0.4
- Heal cooldown reduced from 1 to 1.1 seconds
- Archmage strength per level increased from 1.8 to 2
- Paladin move speed increased from 290 to 300
Night Elf
- Immolation activation cost increased from 1 to 10
- Mana Burn range reduced from 300 to 250
- Immolation mana activation requirement increased from 9 to 10
- Warden blink cooldown reduced from 10/7/4 to 10/5/2.5
- Fan of Knives max total damage increased from 300/625/950 to 375/ 750/1330 (Unit cap increased to 4/5/5 to 5/6/7)
- Mana Flare max damage reduced from 100 to 80
- Mark of the Talon now only requires Adept Training
Undead
- Spiked Carapace melee damage returned increased from 15/25/35 to 15/30/45%
- Spiked Carapace bonus armor increased from 3/5/7 to 4/8/12
- Cripple cost reduced from 125 to 100 mana
- Skeletal Mastery cost reduced from 200/175 to 150/100
- Nerubian Tower cooldown increased from 1 to 1.5
- Nerubian Tower Frost Attack reduced from 5 to 3 on for Heroes (Remains 5 for units)
- Abomination collision size reduced from 48 to 40
- Abomination turn rate increased from 0.4 to 0.5
- Crypt Fiend turn rate increased from 0.5 to 0.6
- Dreadlord move speed increased from 290 to 300
Orc
- Bladestorm damage increased from 110 damage per second to 140 damage per second
- Spirit Walker Build time reduced from 38 seconds to 35 seconds
- Spirit Walker Adept Training reduced from 60 to 50
- Spirit Walker Master Training reduced from 75 to 65
- Steel Armor Upgrade Lumber Increment Reduced from 150 to 125
- Steel Melee Weapon Melee Lumber increment reduced from 100 to 75
- Steel Ranged Weapons Lumber increment reduced from 100 to 75
- Troll headhunter hit points increased from 350 to 375
- Tauren build time reduced from 44 to 39 seconds
Neutral
- Firelord Incenerate mana cost reduced from 6 to 3
- Firelord Lava Split requirement reduced from 15 to 13
- Firelord Volcano Damage increased from 100 to 125
Items
- Tome of Retraining now has a stock of 2 charges in the shop
- Staff of Teleportation now has a stock of 2 charges in the shop
- Crystal Ball moved from level 3 to 2
- Crystal Ball moved from permanent to charged drop table
- Crystal Ball now has 2 charges
- Crystal Ball cooldown removed
- Ring of Protection +3 removed from Drop Table
- Claws of Attack +4 increased to Claws of Attack +5
- Periapt of Vitality gold cost reduced from 325 to 300
Neutral
- Dark Troll Trapper movement speed reduced from 300 to 270
- Ice Troll Berserker movement speed reduced from 300 to 270
- Ice Troll High Priest movement speed reduced from 300 to 270
- Assassin movement speed reduced from 300 to 270
- Frost Armor slow effect cast by creeps reduced from 5 to 3 seconds
Map Pool
- 1v1, 2v2, 4v4, and FFA Map Pool has been updated
Tournaments
After looking at recent tournament activity and experimenting with different timezones to cater to multiple regions we have adjusted the tournament schedule where it will rotate time zones each week. At the end of week 4 tournaments will reset back to week 1. We are also moving away from the more specific type of tournaments to cater to a wider audience per tournament.
4 Likes
I get the mana burn range reduced. But still nova untouched? it has 800 range at lvl 1, crazy single target damage, good AOE (range AOE without limit cap) and the slows last for ever. Range should be nerfed (maybe to 600, 600 and 800 at lvl 3) and either the single target damage or the AOE reduced. Maybe, with the nerf, make it a bit cheaper in mana.
3 Likes
Mana Burn range reduced from 300 to 250
So a quick question, NE vs UD is considered one of the most imbalanced matchups in the game at competitive ladder.
And then there’s even more nerfs on NE for that particular matchup.
Thank you for the prompt PTR changes but I do have a question on the matchup. Is NE supposed to just lose vs UD?
Just for reference (actual vs expected discrepancy for NE vs UD after adjusting for 2k mmr plus from w3champions):
Amazonia: -0.4%
Echo Isles 2.0: 0.7%
Last Refuge: 2.1%
Springtime: 2.6%
Shallow Grave: 2.9%
Concealed Hill: 3.1%
Twisted Meadows: 3.7%
Autumn Leaves: 3.7%
Hammerfall: 4.8%
Northern Isles: 5.4%
Tidehunters: 6.1%
Turtle Rock: 8.3%
Exactly what is this change addressing. Vs Orc in competitive scene, mana burn is rarely found. Vs Hu, we currently see immolation + evasion early game.
Mana burn early generally in competitive scene shows up Vs UD.
Nerfing mana burn impacts NE vs UD the most.
In Season 16 (on ‘Expected and average winrates 2.0’ aggregated by w3c admins):
Undead vs Night Elf has a 4.9% discrepancy in favor of UD from 2.3k up.
This is the highest discrepancy in the game in terms of actual vs expected winrates at similar MMR as the 2nd and 3rd highest are 3.4% and 2.6%.
Again, I do want to ask, what is this addressing?
I thought the purpose of PTR was also to fix imbalanced matchups. Not exaggerate further.
Is UD getting nerfs to compensate for this? And if so, how would this be done without impacting UD’s other matchups?
I understand some players are quite vocal about nerfing mana burn from the game because “it’s not a fun spell”. That’s the exact problem which led to HU losing armor on breakers on one of the patches.
Mana burn as it is today is not sufficient to compete vs UD competitively. And w3champion stats after aggregated and filtered for MMR vs MMR (actual vs expected) really highlight this.
There’s still no address on the issue of:
- Ghoul frenzy being too overwhelming in the game.
- Undead expansion (tier 1 and tier 2) having no real answers for Night Elf in the game. Also opening up strats like mass gargoyles which is a hard counter to the Elf race.
- Undead nerubian tower rush at tier 1 which is absurdly powerful. Having a 5 armor fortified less than 4 minutes to the game on an opponent’s base is just poor game design and legitimately a bug in the game. And if the NE miraculously fends this tower rush, the NE is actually behind as there’s no moonwell juice to compete rest of game. This strat is just detrimental to the game itself.
- Late game UD being too efficient at killing NE units like bears from the game. And units like banshees forcing NE to go mgs which loses to aboms and fiends due to lack of DPS from NE side.
With fiends and aboms getting a buff in the NE vs UD matchup, how would you compensate for the gross imbalance of NE vs UD today especially if Demon Hunter cannot mana burn properly with the range nerf?
6 Likes
Keep listening to B2W casters and we will never see other race win a tournament expect Undead … 
I feel soory for demon hunter players and other races B2W is killing the game …
Where is death coil nerf where is Destroyers nerf ? Most op race in the game is UND by far.
7 Likes
Mana Burn range reduced from 300 to 250 - what are you smoking, Blizzard?
UD vs NE match up has been broken for 3 years. It become somewhat better but not anywhere near being balanced.
We get no real response nor we see: ghoul frenzy nerf; ghoul frenzy research time nerf; skull getting addressed (both fexpo, and nerubian tower rush). Top elf players has been asking to make the count as 1 and to add some lumber cost to it, - And now you nerf the only hero that scales well into ud? With the immolation change we get it - it is to help human vs elf. But as for touching mana burn: revert this change as this is incorrect direction of the game going - or finally address both: coil and nova. DH is the part of all meta elf strategies vs undead - and the match up is FAR from looking good. Remo has his own problems with this spell - while in reality it is night elf players that need help across all mmr range to fight the most broken mu of the game
6 Likes
Idea for Crypto Lord Updates
As many have pointed out over the years Crypt Lord still needs some changes. Specifically its Passive Spiked Carapace.
Spiked Carapace is not interesting to play against as there’s nothing you as a player can really do to as counterplay against this ability (Except not hitting the crypt Lord - which is unfun conceptually and makes even less sense when factoring in hes supposed to be the main tank). Its a boring ability pick for yourself since you can’t really use it in a meaningful way (doesn’t increase creep speed and only affects battles when taking damage, and ONLY if its Melee Damage). Its also simply not very impactful as well as not “Fun” as an ability.
My recommendation is add a stun to spiked carapace thus accomplishing increasing his threat
- Add (.5 / 1 / 1.5) second stun per level on a small chance 25% 35% 45% like bash. But less powerful (Since it won’t have the increased damage component/and a lower stun time). This would give the Crypt Lord sustained CC that makes him a threat that needs to be CC’d or played around. Currently he’s honestly not a big deal, since he has low mana burns a lot of it on beetle summons (Since Spiked Carapace is so bad) and only has a few casts for his damage/CC ability. Currently its more effective to ignore him and go after his army than deal with the crypt Lord… Which doesn’t make sense since he is a main tank. Conceptually he needs more threat.
To compensate for the increased stun. Id reduce his armor gained from spiked carapace. the increased utility would allow crypt lord to be a Melee Carry for UD. Which is pretty lacking on UD.
With this buff I’m still not even sure he would be better than say an addition of a Pit Lord. The stun would make him more competitve but you give up utility from the DK or damage and slow from the lich to pick him. I’m not sure even with the stun CL would be competitive but it would be a start.
Additional Buff
- Change Spiked Carapace so that the crypt lords passive also buffs his beetles. IE bonus armor and damage reflect applies to summoned beetles. Perhaps the bonus armor is applied at a smaller amount to the beetles. 2/4/6? Id say keep the damage reflect values the same 15/30/45%.
If the ability is kept the same (doesn’t apply to beetles) I would consider adding a something else to it. See examples below. The point is to keep him being the main tank of the army. either via CC or ability to stay in the fights via longevity.
Additional Buff 2 (if previous are not implemented)
- (1/1.5/2) health regen per level
- Make spiked carapace damage reflect apply to both melee and ranged
This wouldn’t give the Crypt Lord additional CC and thus “Threat” but it would drastically increase his stay in battle or his ability to recover after a battle. His sustain isn’t bad late game with statues but its a bigger issue early game. Especially since picking him doesn’t allow you to take death coil if hes a 1st pick. Sustain would be nice and might make spiked carapace a more viable pick adding it in.
I think adding more CC and making spiked carapace apply to beetles will make it a significantly more fun ability. It’ll also make crypt lord unique in that he’ll be able to somewhat buff his summons.
Overall I feel like Crypt Lord is a niche pick. He’s terrible late game if picked first. doesn’t have enough damage potency/utility to compete with the likes of Lich/Death Knight. He needs a niche and I think adding CC and survivability to his summons would be a start.
The stun would increase his damage/kill secure potency. The increased beetles would help make him relevant later game. (Which will still be countered by dispel tools since they are summons)
Comparing him to say a Mountain King/Tauren Chieftan/Demon Hunter. Hes a significantly worse hero overall. He is supposed to fill the Main Tank role… but is worse in every category compared to these other heroes
Examples
-
Mountain King
higher damage/more stun
= significantly higher threat while also being tanky -
Paladin
Armywide armor buff / Healing utility for Army / invulnerability
= armywide buff and healing are vastly superior to anything CL offers UD armys -
Tauren Chieftain
More CC / armywide damage/movement buff / Higher Damage
more utility via buff / high tank / high CC -
Demon Hunter
Mana Burn / high damage mitigation
Mana burn is potentially the best ability in the game and coupled with evade is amazing. Plus Ulti is game winning. -
Pit Lord
Large CC damage debuff / Cleave
High Threat damage / Large Damage reduction
When you compare similar heroes like above… Crypto Lord is the worst version of all of these. curent iteration of Crowd Control on CL is not a big enough deal to make him a serious threat on his own. And all his abilities damage reflect mean someone has to attack him for the ability to be useful. So if you ignore him that’s basically his counter. Because he has a very low threat of CC/overall damage.
I personally think you need to make him more of a threat (Via sustained CC or sustained damage). Or make his summons tankier to have him be the front line defender to keep off your ranged units.
To compensate I think some of his survivability should potentially be reduced. I recommend playing around with him. but make the actual hero more potent.
1 Like
The inventory quantity of Tome of Retraining should not be changed, because sometimes snapping up it has strategic value and is part of the fun and confrontation of the game.
2 Likes
would’ve been a lot better to fix the campaign maps as they were rather than roll them back, a lot of work went into the updated campaign maps 
Please do not give HU additional militia time, revert MK changes and do not touch DH in any way. Humans are doing just fine vs NE. It’s all about skill issue and having competent players.
P.S. The replies and balance suggestions made by aCCcreate and Razermoon are absolutely on point and based
2 Likes
Hey guys great your patching. Please don’t forget hero Ultimates. A big part of the community plays 4v4 where ultimates actually happen from time to time unlike in 1v1. Alot of them cost too much Mana and have a cooldown that is too long. 150 mana for an ultimate should be the maximum that they cost so a player can atleast buy a mana pot to use the ultimate.
I posted about my suggestion for future patches on reddit, it got over 2k views and alot of likes, below is a snippet.
Please please pretty please look at the Naga ultimate. It needs some buffs it is extremely bad basically the worst ultimate in the game. The neutral tavern hero beastmaster has an ability called Hawk, sadly an ability that is never used, you gotta help him out. Here are some suggestions. A lot of the ults just need some quality of life changes in general. Soulburn also a dead ability that needs some help.
Neutral
Firelord
Volcano Mana cost reduced from 200 to 150
Soul Burn total damage is increased from to 80/200/340 to 100/250/440
Soulburn Mana cost reduced from 65 to 50
Soul Burn Cooldown decreased from 12 to 8/7/6
Incinerate mana cost decreased from 6 to 4
Naga Sea Witch
Tornado cast range increased from 900 to 1500
Tornado speed increased from 75 to 125
Tornado slow area increased from 600 to 1000
Naga Mana Shield Activation Mana cost reduced from 25 to 10
Cooldown reduced from 10 to 5 seconds
Mana Shield damage absorbed increased from 2/3/4 to 2/4/6
Beastmaster
Summon Hawk Cooldown reduced from 70 to 40 seconds
Level-2 hawk damage increased from 21 - 26 to 33 - 38
Level-3 hawk hit points increased from 650 from 875 (reverting the 2003 nerf)
Beastmaster bear's Bash ability stun on Heroes increased from 1 second to 1,5 seconds
Stampede Cooldown decreased from 180 to 120 seconds
Pitlord
Doom Damage per Second to doomed unit increased from 40 to 100 damage
Doom Guard (Summoned) Unit Movement Speed increased from 270 to 320
Rain of fire Area of effect now increases with level from 200 to 200/230/260
Rain of Fire Mana cost reduced from 85 to 75
please consider this change for the ptr
Necromancers can now initially cast Unholy Frenzy, can also learn Raise Dead and Cripple
the necromancer is a unit that is honestly never used. which is really sad. this might give them some play.
Lifedrain and tinker rockets could also need a tiny buff maybe 5-10 dmg
OMG, dear blizz, please, STOP LISTEN BACK2WARCRAFT guys with few years rt gameplay experience. Its just nonsense, you completely kill the game that way.
Just look their channel’s “How We Would Patch the Game” and you can see all this absurd changes already 7 days ago, include 250 range manaburn, 42.5 sec militia, 1.8 to 2 strengh am…
3 Likes
PTR 1 had Alchemist move speed reduced from 290 to 280
PTR 2 notes say this change was reverted
PTR 3 currently has Alchemist move speed at 280
so, with that way, there is just no human players left during next ~2 patches.
It will be 70% elfes, 29% orcs, and happy
Really, lets make wc3 two-race-rts, like wc2, it would be better
2 Likes
i feel like mana burn its very toxic of a interaction between heroes and units, you press a button, removes all of its mana, turn it into a creep, i wish they rework mana burn into something less toxic and more interactive related to a demon hunter and buff immolation into something easy to use so demon hunters have to melee all the time and tank, theres so many spells from hots and wow that can replace dh mana burn such as illidan dash and jump from hots, throw glaive from wow, blade dance stuff like that
1 Like
I like these changes a lot! I would suggest a slight stats buff too for the orc blademaster, like +1 or +2 Agility. He would still be fragile, but could be picked against more races like human for example.
2 Likes