Please give UD something new next patch

So now we have the final PTR patchnoes which are arriving next week, and there is absolutely nothing new or exciting for UD players.

It is at the core of balance philosophy that the game should stay fair and fun for all kinds of players. Yet you are not doing this for UD. 3 Races are getting new tools but UD is getting left out. And no, the change to Death Knight ultimate, while appreciated, does not have considerable impact in the game.

Nerfs to Dark Ritual are being made, aswell as Undead expansions. The real killer nerf are the statue nerfs obviously. Statues were already nerfed with -50 HP, same as Destroyers who received -50 HP and -25% damage. Frost Armor was nerfed. Orb was nerfed. Crypt Lord was nerfed so many times and now no one is playing him anymore.

After all this, we have to ask, where is UD getting anything new and exciting? You immedaitely scrapped the +30 HP for Ghouls, even before you added more and more nerfs. It is only fair to keep the +30 HP for Ghouls now given the fact that you piled on more and more nerfs for UD.

A big side effect to the statue nerf is that Dreadlord and Crypt Lord will be played even less, since these strength heroes heavily rely on mana for spells and have poor mana regeneration.
Both heroes have a passive (vamp aura and spike carapace) which is underhwelming. Vamp Aura could have been useful if you had kept the +30 HP on Ghouls, which you should have given the amount of nerfs UD is getting. And spiked Carapace is in the exact same spot since you buffed spiked barricades for Orc, thorns aura and ring of protection. All these things got buffed but spiked carapace was not, even though the effects are the same.

Please consider buffing mana regen for Dreadlord and Cryptlord to compensante for Statue mana nerfs. Please improve spiked carapace for Crypt Lord. And please keep the +30 HP on Ghouls so that Dreadlord + vamp aura will be a viable choice for the first time ever.

Its about time that Necromancers get a rework. Mass Necromancers + Wagons is a horrible strategy thats not fun to play with or against. Infested Terrans were removed in Starcraft 2 because mass summon units are simply bad design. Same with Swarm Hosts.

I am sure there are now more than a hundred pages of suggestions on the forums, on reddit, on livestreams, on how to make Necromancers a viable support caster. Please give us the rework we have been asking for for years.

We already tried it once and I believe switching around the spells and adjusting numbers is key. Raise Skeletons should be less about massing weak units. See this suggestion to double the stats of Skeletons but greatly reduce their numbers. No one is asking to make this unit overpowered like the last rework. It should be a viable choice, which it is not, because UD is forced into a fast tier 3 every game because UD has no dispel on tier 2.

Look at this, less than a month ago we had another discussion about Necromancers, but you ignored it sadly:

Its about time that Frost Wyrms receive a buff to be worth using. We haven’t seen a single Frost Wyrm in so many competitive games, even after they became more accessible.

We have suggested reduced cost and reduced stats and increased attack range. Their attack range is too low, everyone is using ranged units nowadays due to ranged unit powercreep. Frost Wyrms are taking way too much damage before they get many attacks in. So consider making them a cheaper unit with less stats but more attack range so that they are less of an investment.

Now Abominations are getting nerfed again, without any reason given. Disease Cloud has received 3 nerfs in a row. Why? This nerf feels arbitrary.

Please consider reducing Abomination collision size and increasing their turn rate. This unit is very clunky. The big problem is its collision size, You see, unlike Bears and Knights, you cannot have a frontline of abominations because they occupy too much space.
Reducing their collision size would make it so much easier for them to get in melee and attack. Instead, they are mostly damage sponged and spread disease cloud, but do not attack often.

UD needs something new. You removed the +30 HP on Ghouls. It should have stayed. With additional damage on Blademaster and immolation Ghouls are not problem for Orc and NE now. And for Human Ghouls were not threat either thanks to Panda with brilliance aura and clarity potions or MK.

It is very sad how after the Crypt Lord rework he isn’t used at all anymore. You went back and gave Spell Breakers +1 armor again after you reduced it by -1 back in the day. So why not do the same for Crypt Lord?

The mana nerfs on statues alone are a massive -33% nerf on mana for every single UD hero and caster. You cannot justify nerfing a race this much and not giving them anything worthwhile in return. Please do not treat your playerbase like this.

1 Like

UD player here as well, chiming on this post as well as my thoughts on any UD changes.

Ghouls are always going to suck. They attack at melee range, they are a low-health 2-food unit and they move slowly. This means they will just die no matter what you do. They will take a ton of damage going to the enemy and they will also take a ton of damage retreating. It’s a less durable footman. I don’t see how they can get rid of this weakness because it’s tied with the unit’s design. However, if Grunts got a health boost, I don’t see why Ghouls should not also get one either.

Gargs are just as bad. They can fly and move fast, but their attack damage is so bad. There is just no reason to use this over Fiends. I mean there is some usage against Elf, but it’s really that ANY air can work against Elf and even then it’s a fringe strategy that you could still just use Fiends.

Necromancers… are a unit that I use 99% of the games I play. They don’t shine in 1v1, but they are quite powerful in 3v3 and 4v4. They have a ton of great abilities and utilities. The first thing to say is that they are quite strong right now in multiplayer which is a good thing. Skeletons are great for creeping, scouting, base sieging, sacrificing and as general fodder. They need to stay as the base spell. Unholy Frenzy is also really powerful for DPS. The only issue is that the damage per second was reduced to 2hp/second versus 4hp/second which is a nerf. It makes it weaker to use it AGAINST low health enemy units. So I would really much like it if Unholy Frenzy went back to taking 4 health a second so it can be used OFFENSIVELY. Cripple is really strong in disabling big units as well as heroes. It’s good to chase down enemies that are running away. Making it cost 125 from 175 is much appreciated.

The only thing with Necromancers is that they are NOT like a traditional caster. They are NOT a support unit. They are the army. They however MUST work with the Meat Wagon because they MUST have bodies to do their thing. As such, any buff to the Meat Wagon indirectly buffs the Necromancer. This is why I have said time and time again to buff the speed of the Meat Wagon. Necromancers just can’t be used in today’s meta because they move so, so slow. You can’t play them in 1v1 because 1v1 entails nimble hitting and running which the Necromancers cannot do. You need to buff the speed of the Meat Wagon to help them out.

So for Necromancers I’d say:

  • increase Meat Wagon speed

  • increase Unholy Frenzy damage from 2hp/second to 4hp/second (how it used to be)

The last thing I want to say is that 1v1 UD will likely never diverge from DK Fiends because it has the least amount of weaknesses, the most amount of advantages and it’s available at tier-1. So there is no need to diverge from this plan. You really need to introduce ranged unit counters to fix things.

Other than that I agree with everything else in this post.

1 Like

I just want that spirit+nerub tower RANGE should increase little bit !
The rest can stay the same, UD is too strong in mid + late game!

Wrong forum, use the appropriate one.