Weird. This is the first time I see someone viewing WC1 as more Lovecrafting than the Old God shenanigans in WoW. But I get what you’re saying, you mean “other worlds”, whereas in modern WoW, it’s more like all the same Universe with different players.
The thing is, Lovecraftian Horror isn’t just about tentacly old gods and their tentacly minions. That is a very modern, pop-culture derived concept.
Lovecraftian Horror is horror of the unknown. It’s not something you can kill with fire or fight with a sword or will away with magic. It’s simply out of the realm of mortal rationality.
A very important part of Lovecraftian horror is mystery. You aren’t supposed to know the origins of this evil, because it’s way too ancient and way beyond human understanding. You aren’t supposed to be able to understand their motives, because they are beyond good and evil. What seems evil to us is just a happenstance, like a person stepping on ants and not even regarding their existence. We are the ants being stepped on, and we have no way of understanding how or why.
WC1 and WC22 deals with demons as otherworldly entities; whisperers in the dark who can not be killed since they don’t have a true presence. Even at the resolution of the game, all that could be done was killing the evil Mage/Warlock (not the demon) and routing the monsters back to their world. At no point could you actually deal with the over-arching threat, it was just something looming in the background.
Diablo 1 was Lovecraftian as well. Everything happening to Tristram was all due to the whisperings of a trapped demon in a soulstone. You couldn’t really kill the demon, even the ending was tragic and all you could do was try and contain it. That’s sort of the nature of Lovecraftian horror - it is persistent and can never be resolved.
WC3 is where this story changed. Demons were no longer a ‘ever-present’ threat. It was a tangible threat. It was a bad guy you could burn or kill or will-away with magic. It was an invasion you could stop by killing the commander. While there’s nothing wrong with this type of story telling, it’s not the same type of ‘lurking in the shadows’ representation of demons as it was before.
WoW goes well beyond this, making Demons as common as any other creep in the game.
Not entirely related but I’m starting to see why Diablo 3 has been regarded as “not Diablo enough” by the franchise’s long-time fans. Every evil entity is tangible and the player gets to eventually root out and eliminate it. Not much mystery element to go on. Whereas Diablo 2’s plot has the player kept in the dark in at least the first 3 acts, and still leaves a lot of intangible elements in its conclusion.
I don’t think Warcraft 3 suffers from this problem, though. The player was told quite explicitly that Archimonde is just an agent leading the Legion’s invasion, and Sargeras has been the invisible hand behind the curtains… until WoW’s Legion expansion a decade later
I’ve said it before but Broken Isles tileset is one I have a love-hate relationship with.
I think it should look the same or close to the original in terms of having a Ruins tileset in Reforged. That means custom maps with Ruins tileset would at least look the same as it was meant to.
I also don’t like what Legion did to the Broken Isles, making everything black rock and fel green. Or having things look like Azsuna or Suramar; while WoW had a great direction for it that’s not how it looked in Warcraft 3. I wouldn’t mind having one or two Night Elf style buildings thrown in just to show it’s an ancient Night Elf ruin, but the majority should look like the original tileset.
However, all that being said, I would love to see Nazjatar elements get thrown into the Ruins tileset as doodads, because the lore of the place is that it’s raised from the sea. I really like the idea of an underwater city being raised from the depths, and Nazjatar is what I always imagined the WC3 Broken Isles should have looked like.
When I wrote my comment, I meant there is a physical possibility that Blizzard might move the locations of #3 and #4 out from the Ruins tileset and into areas that might look like Highmountain.
I crave the new Outlands. I lack the green Black Citadel in my life.
TFT UD #1King Arthas is an incredibly high-IQ mission. And politically, it’s relevant now more than ever. As a pope of the Scourge, you ought to kill refugees - and the said refugees look like white people.
Main Quests
Slaughter Human Refugees
Destroy the refugee towns (9 Obliterated)
No more than 20 refugees may escape
There are several bands of Human refugees attempting to escape to the recently captured city of Dalaran. Rout them and burn down their pathetic villages and encampments to show them the folly of trying to escape Arthas’ wrath.
LMAO the Chronicle, you brought up the Chronicle to back up your arguments about Warcraft 3, just goes to show that you are a massive hypocrite.
All your arguments are now irrelevant as a result. You can’t expect me to argue with the garbage chronicle book that ruined the Warcraft series with retcon bullcrap.
Dreadlords don’t care to follow mortals without an agenda, they’d rather just die, seriously there is no reason why Varimathras would serve Sylvanas, none. It would accomplish nothing. Dreadlords want progress, they exist to cause chaos, if they aren’t causing chaos, their existence has no meaning.
You claim that they were desperate, well isn’t that why Sylvanas was going to be used as a figurehead?
Tichondrius wasn’t desperate enough to beg for his life despite being in a very bad situation, neither was Mal’ganis. Varimathras only begged for his life because he could use Sylvanas. It was all part of his plan, heck it’s even one of his voice clips “I love it when a plan domes together” and “I’m always on the winning side”. He is using her!!!
Keep being delusional and repeating the same excuses over and over again because there isn’t any disputing this.
It amazes me how you’re sad enough to continue arguing about this for so long. It honestly is tiring dealing with such delusional people such as yourself.
Not if Sylvanas won though. If Sylvanas beat their asses, they wouldn’t even be there. Kel’thuzad wouldn’t know Varimathras was still around. That’s the point.
Oh you can bet I’m here to remind Blizzard of their crimes. I’ve been doing so for years and I’m not going to stop here.
As a former Blizzard fan it is a duty to say my piece on this Hong Kong protester silencing. I hope everyone else will join in and dogpile this awful company. Everyone needs to realize that Blizzard have zero integrity and that their brand is a disgrace to all gamers. Regardless of our opinions on the lore, I am hoping that we are mutual on this at least.
Yeap atleast they listened us “purists” on that regard and it gives me hope they would also listen to us if there ever will be WC IV.
Obviously I understand that there is no pleasing everyone in this regard and those hoping for some kind of retcon between WC III and WoW (not needed in my honest opinion in the first place) are now feeling betrayed. But as the saying goes “if it aint broken, dont try to fix it”. So in that regard this was 100% right decision to make, cause honestly the original idea didnt make any sense to me.
Anyhow here is hoping that if we ever get Warcraft IV that the team responsible for the game at Blizzard would listen to us again in regards of story and understands that its much better to keep Warcraft IV and WoW as two seperate storylines that could go on independently from eachother. That way anyone coming into WC IV would not have to have anykind of understanding what has been going on in WoW all these years and and Blizzard would be free to create anykind of story they want for it without the shackles of MMO and WoW’s established story to bind it in any way or form.
Anyhow in that regard this is a remaster, NOT a remake and thats how it should be.
People who commit suicide jump off buildings all the time. your argument about that is frankly idiotic. people who kill themselves are generally not thinking rationally.
there is no orcish constitution, the old horde had necromancers and necrolytes ala wc1 and 2, and the wow horde still has the warlocks from wc1 and wc2 horde. them tolerating undead isn’t out of the question. you could make an argument why the undead shouldn’t have been in the horde lorewise but you did a poor job of it. the dreadlords not being cunning is…interesting, considering what varimathras pulled with putress at wrathgate and building up to that and after that, as well as considering balnazzar and mal’ganis ruled over the scarlet crusade from the shadows. but yeah that’s not at all interesting. if this is all you have for arguments against wow lore then get more arguments, because this is weak as hell. there’s plenty wrong with wow’s lore but these things are not it, other than the forsaken being in the horde which is debatable and i understand for gameplay/faction purposes.
Or was there really? This is something that wasnt in my understanding officially confirmed anywhere, it was just based on hearsay last year…
Either way yes, fans of Warcraft III were VERY vocal about not replacing the old voice acting or even changing the lore in any way or form, so atleast according to the Reforged team they shortly after decided to ditch any additional lore and new voice acting shorty thereafter.
Besides, if you REALLY want something new and “innovative” then be vocal and keep requesting Blizzard to finally make Warcraft IV OR at very least add more entirely new campaigns to WC3: Reforged after launch if possible.
I like what your saying. Warcraft 4. or requesting to add new campaigns later down the line.
i feel the need to point out its ironic. not that the community hasn’t made amazing campaigns exploring alternate lore and just sticking exactly wow lore.
